Will he come back?
Sun May 16 2010 - 07:27 pm
Hi Paige
Gosh! I LOVE your book and emails!! I have learnt SO much, but not what to do with my situation:
I long-distance dated a man who was SO into me (culturally it is different- we both are Indian but from different religions) that he brought his mom over from CA to WI to meet me twice, told her I was the best thing ever that happened to him (we both had arranged marriages: I have been divorced 10 years after a miserable 4 yr marriage and not found what I had been looking for until I met him; he was divorced 2 years after an 11 year marriage and SHE had walked out on him). His mom told me he wished he had met me 15 years ago! His entire family loved me including his 2 girls aged 5 and 7 (now 7 and 9)....then when the ex learnt he was serious about marrying me, she wanted to come back; he refused bec he could not trust her again after she had walked out on him. She tried 3 times last year to get back and even used the girls to get him to agree. Then he told me we would get married in Nov 2009 and in Dec 2010 go for honeymoon, but he shut down in
Sept...he stopped responding to any emails/texts/calls. I called his mom in Dec to tell her that I was going to move on...she told him and he came back with a ring! and said I was "too precious to lose" and then shut down again after being there for me during a surgery after an accident in Feb..he had told all his family and friends we were getting married in April and he would bring me to a family wedding to Canada in May (next week!!). He promised that we would respect each other's faiths...then he shut down in April and sent me an email saying he had very negative feelings and we would be miserable (his ex had emailed him about the religious differences and that she still loved him and was hoping I would be a fling and if he married me she would not let the kinds accept me as a stepmom and he would regret marrying me because she would make our lives miserable).
So will he ever come back - if he stops listening to her? She wore the pants in their marriage for 11 years, there was no love (she slept in a separate bedroom the last 4 years of the marriage)...she still seems to be in control of his mind! DO I move on? I have heard that if guys get some space and THEY are the ones who have left and really appreciate what they may have lost by letting go, they sometimes come back...or am I hoping for something that has a 0% chance of happening?
Take care
Seema
Sun May 16 2010 - 11:02 pm
Sadly Seema, for your own sanity's sake--yes do move on.
This has been going on for months now and he has proven that he cannot be trusted. Maybe his ex is at the bottom of his hot and cold running act but who knows? It really doesn't matter. there are serious trust issues for you no matter what is the cause. You need consistency in a relationship--that he will love you tomorrow as much as today. That you can relax and be yourself, open up and grow with him. That he can see you at your pms'ing worst and still love you.
That he will stand by you in an ex-attack.
I am glad he was there for you in your surgery, but next time who knows? The next time you are facing a crisis is he in or out? Do you buy your wedding dress or not?
Ya, I would say cut your losses on this one. If it was once I would say fine, but you never know if he is in or if he will pull the rug out from under you.
And if his ex is still pulling his chain, there is nothing you can do.
Sorry.
Mon May 17 2010 - 05:58 am
Seema,
I agree with Theta that you must try to carry on and fill his gap as if you believe he won't come back. But only so that you don't waste emotional energy whittling and wondering and waiting around on the shelf in the meantime. Doing that can be so mentally exhausting as to ironically render you incapable of maintaining a relationship with him (on his return), or anybody! It would also render you insecure, over-needy and clingy which would give him all the power (which would make it easier for him to behave flakily again if ever another tough situation arose)... which is what happened after the first time he started acting up (if you think about it).
He needs to feel the FULL fear of never again having you as his girlfriend, least of all an option who's waiting forever patiently behind his scenes for him to take his sweet time sorting himself out.
So I strongly - repeat, STRONGLY - suggest you prepare for his return OR a new and better man in your life by following the Date Yourself advice in the ebook. When you've reached the point where you can feel you can live just fine without him, is when you'll be ready and might very well be what triggers HIM into being finally ready. (I've just been there myself.)
So don't use his mother. This has to be something HE does or learns to do by his own inner resources so that he has that skill forever after.
Now to him and what's going on:
I long-distance dated a man who was SO into me
Long distance is your handicap. His ex isn't long-distance. But never mind: the chemistry if powerful enough will ultimately overcome that minor obstacle... and it sounds like it was/is.
(culturally it is different- we both are Indian but from different religions) that he brought his mom over from CA to WI to meet me twice, told her I was the best thing ever that happened to him
Clearly the different religions wasn't a problem for his pack (mum didn't mind a jot). So that's no obstacle (despite that he, needing delay tactics, might cite it as such).
(we both had arranged marriages: I have been divorced 10 years after a miserable 4 yr marriage and not found what I had been looking for until I met him;
A failed marriage is felt as massive rejection and failure whether oneself walked out or one's ex did (albeit it's worse for the one who's been rejected).
You weren't ready for a large period while you WERE looking. Then you progressed to a state of mental readiness and - Bam! You found someone very quickly. But you've put that period of non-success down to you not being attractive enough and/or there not being men who are attractive-to-you enough. Wrong. Count only the time when you were ready and judge the situation by that.
he was divorced 2 years after an 11 year marriage and SHE had walked out on him).
This tells me you were the walker in your marriage but he the "reject" in his. Exacerbated by the factor of his gender, his sense of loss, rejection and failure would have been far greater than yours, i.e. his self-esteem would have been shrunken far more.
His mom told me he wished he had met me 15 years ago!
Translation: I hated his ex. (Good).
His entire family loved me including his 2 girls aged 5 and 7 (now 7 and 9)
Good.
....then when the ex learnt he was serious about marrying me, she wanted to come back;
No, she didn't, not in her heart. Her ego did. This is just a knee-jerk ego reaction on her part. There is a very good reason why their marriage fell apart and why she ended it in such a way that would have meant him ever taking her back would too likely prove to be intolerable to his ego for any meaningful length of time. And that is because she knew-knew-knew she didn't want him any more. She killed their relationship stone dead. You don't do that unless you feel VERY strongly that you never want that person as your romantic partner ever again so long as ye shall live! And if you did have any doubt but killed it anyway? Tough. Live with it.
he refused bec he could not trust her again after she had walked out on him.
Precisely.
She tried 3 times last year to get back and even used the girls to get him to agree.
THIS is what he's responding to - the typical fear of the newly divorced father ("What if my kids reject me?"). He doesn't love her nor want her but unfortunately, until he rationalises it properly and realises that she doesn't have that power to permanently mar or block his relationship with his daughters, his fear of losing his kids outweighs his fear of losing you.
Give it time...
Then he told me we would get married in Nov 2009 and in Dec 2010 go for honeymoon, but he shut down in Sept...he stopped responding to any emails/texts/calls.
When men are confused and don't know what to do, they do NOTHING, become paralysed.
I called his mom in Dec to tell her that I was going to move on...she told him and he came back with a ring!
There his fear of losing you suddenly overtook that of losing his kids - because his fear over his kids had already settled and dissipated by then whereas the fear you triggered was fresh and impacted 100%. See how it works?
and said I was "too precious to lose" and then shut down again after being there for me during a surgery after an accident in Feb..
You were vulnerable and needy at that point and ended up by your behaviour making him feel over-secure... enough to plonk you back on the shelf for another while whilst he (slowly) sorted out the kid problem.
he had told all his family and friends we were getting married in April and he would bring me to a family wedding to Canada in May (next week!!). He promised that we would respect each other's faiths...then he shut down in April and sent me an email saying he had very negative feelings and we would be miserable (his ex had emailed him about the religious differences and that she still loved him and was hoping I would be a fling and if he married me she would not let the kids accept me as a stepmom and he would regret marrying me because she would make our lives miserable).
Then you can surely clearly see that what he's responding to is NOT feelings of love for her but mere threats that trigger his primal (fatherly) fears? She evidently knows she can't lure him back using her feminine wiles and attractiveness, right?
She does not love him. If she did she couldn't be so cruel and tortuous for a start. Her ego just doesn't like the thought that he could replace her - and so quickly, to boot. This is competitiveness with you on her part.
So will he ever come back
Yes.
- if he stops listening to her?
Not 'if' - WHEN. But men are very slow because they haven't had the daily practise that we women have had with thinking through and resolving emotional dilemmas.
Note the part in the ebook that basically illustrates how you disassociate yourself from the ex and her bad tactical behaviours? Shine, Seema - make her look like the dragon lady she currently is! Be tolerant and understanding albeit stick up for yourself and your own urgent needs. Make it clear that he has your support but that you by the same token cannot put your life on hold for him. But you're there as his friend and - IF you're still available when he's ready for a relationship (and you hope you are as much as he albeit that'll take luck on his part due to the fact you're a highly attractive woman from other men's points of view), then - Great. If not? "That's the way the cookie crumbles, I'm afraid".
That way you don't pressure him unreasonably but neither do you give him the impression that you're going to be waiting around romantically for him forever and ever. He needs a tiny and fair firework up his bum if not a massive unfair rocket. In other words - you let HIM pressure HIMSELF where losing you is concerned.
She wore the pants in their marriage for 11 years, there was no love (she slept in a separate bedroom the last 4 years of the marriage)...she still seems to be in control of his mind!
No, not his mind. But she does know EXACTLY where his Fear Buttons are located and she's pushing them for all she's worth. He'll desensitise to the fear sooner or later and then clearer, more sensible and realistic thinking will return to him. And when it does? Heh-heh... she had better watch out. He will still have a lot of anger and resentment in him over the fact she treated him poorly in the marriage and then abandoned him. (Not saying he was lilywhite, obviously - as you're now discovering re his weaknesses - this is just his own point of view.)
DO I move on? I have heard that if guys get some space and THEY are the ones who have left and really appreciate what they may have lost by letting go, they sometimes come back...or am I hoping for something that has a 0% chance of happening?
Yes you move on.... keep moving, in other words. You and he were real and can be real again at any point in the rest of your lives. Moving on doesn't kill the chemistry - it can't BE killed, it's indelible and unalterable. So if you are available when his life is in a position that allows him to be capable of running a relationship successfully, then you two will connect all over again.
You don't even have to date other men - although woe betide any woman who deliberately neglects getting those needs in her met (sends you doolally in the end) - in fact, I suggest you don't for a while. But the important point is not to count on him. Concentrate on dating yourself for the time being.
All he needs to see is that you can live without him perfectly well, thanks. Then the threat of losing you to another man or (even other, newer life circumstances) is there BUT YOU DIDN'T PUT IT THERE DELIBERATELY. He can't blame you for anything, you retain your shininess. You did nothing to hurt him, you were understanding and sympathetic. You just weren't willing to damage yourself in the process. It's finding a Balance, you see.
Anyway, the only question you need to ask yourself, bearing in mind the fact that what you two feel for each other is one 'thing' felt by two, is this: Given the choice could YOU walk away from him willingly??? Answer: No.
Once he's got over his fears that are blocking out all other considerations and feelings right now, he'll feel that again fully and miss you like b*ggery!
Kids come before romance, I'm afraid - it's part of one's survival programming. But once that threat has been put to bed, THEN the other humanistic needs start shouting for attention all over again.
And don't forget about Fate. You can look at what is in your power to do, what's in his, what's in hers... feel it's not enough to make any changes that suit YOU, but then, suddenly - Bam - Life throws something new and drastic and totally unexpected into the mix that changes the entire situation for you both and in the way that serves you perfectly.
Yep, I reckon he'll be back; I'd certainly put money on it. So view the next 6 months (or less???) as a once-in-a-lifetime holiday and do all the things you can't do or wouldn't have time to do when in a relationship. But if you really want him back with any likelihood of permanence, then - as I say - get dating yourself URGENTLY!
(I know exactly what I'm talking about here, btw - both in theory and in practical: I AM that soldier :-))) Not just kids - Entire Family -versus- Me: I WON! Or rather, We won! (Or rather, A1 Chemistry did.)
xoxo
Mon May 17 2010 - 10:36 am
Dating yourself is a good idea anyway, to open up your own options. He may well be back but it is up to you to decide if you trust him--not as in did he cheat on you but will he be there for you.
Mon May 17 2010 - 10:39 am
Agree, Thets. And it's very hard to be there for someone else when you're in that type of crisis despite that under normal circumstances you could. Takes real emotional strength, that does. But [all tergevah?] - eezamaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan! xoxo
Mon May 17 2010 - 01:30 pm
Thanks, everyone, specially Soulmate...when you say: 'Make it clear that he has your support but that you by the same token cannot put your life on hold for him. But you're there as his friend and - IF you're still available when he's ready for a relationship"....that is exactly what my friend told me to do! I just sent an email back, saying taht I understood his situation and this was not the right time to move forward....that I enjoyed and cherished our relationship and he should feel free to call /stay in touch to talk about anything (I did not use the "friend" word!) and that he should keep me posted on his parents health and his daughters adventures. I did NOT sign "love" or address him as "dearest" as he had in his break up email (he had also written "I am consciously trying to push the fond memories we have created together).
I have not removed him from my Facebook (he rarely comes on it) but he removed me from his Skype contact list when he sent me the break up email.
I am already interviweing to move to WashDC/Boston, where he knew I might end up (we both are doctors, so we can always find each other and he has my sisters' email/phone too just like I have his family's contact info) in case he wanted to get thru them ...so that IF he ever logs onto Facebook, he will see with my status updates and a very active page with my 135 friends, that I am doing things that I like and life is going on as usual....even though it sure is hurting as hell at this time!!
IF he does come back, I know that I will have toget him to agree to pre-marital counselling to prevent him from treating me like this....he had no valid major excuse in his break up except "I will not be able to do justice b/w you, my kids and my family" (bec he had told me he might have to go back/forth or even move to India as his sister is terminally ill and is his only sibling and his parents are in their 70's...culturally, the boy looks after the parents....when he had mentioned this as a fear some months ago, I had been fine with his going as that is what you d for your parents and I would do for mine in a heart beat too.
Mon May 17 2010 - 02:12 pm
Good luck with your job interviews. Moving on in your career is a great move at this time. You can't hold that up for him if he is in one day and out the next.
Mon May 17 2010 - 04:29 pm
Ditto!
But Seema:
IF he does come back, I know that I will have toget him to agree to pre-marital counselling to prevent him from treating me like this.
Frankly, at the stage when he comes back he won't need a jot of counselling because - by the very act of coming back with (thanks only to himself) his cap in hand, he'll be proving he's ALREADY had counselling. *Self*-counselling.
It'll all come out clean in the wash, you'll see. :-)
(And good email! Yep, that's the way to do it.)
xoxo
Wed May 19 2010 - 04:17 pm
@ Soulmate: I have read your wonderful analysis over and over again...and want to hear what you have to say about your comment: "So if you are available when his life is in a position that allows him to be capable of running a relationship successfully, then you two will connect all over again."...so do you suggest that if after trying my best to move on with my life, if after 2 years (his mom had actually told me that he may be ready in 1-2 years, and taht I should "stay in touch", I had refused - how can I stay in touch with HIM if he won't respond, and how can I stay in touch with HER if the reason to stay in touch with her is her son who is not responding to me - AND we all live far apart!! (He in California, me in Wisconsin and she in India!!)...if I have not found someone to replace him that should I make contact if he has not - bec given his gender, ego and the fact that he may think I would reject him bec he had walked away from me without giving me good valid reasons and that too by email?
He has been the only man in my life, who has liked and loved me for who I am on the inside ...and that has been the hardest thing for me in letting him go...
Wed May 19 2010 - 05:10 pm
@ Soulmate: I have read your wonderful analysis over and over again...and want to hear what you have to say about your comment: "So if you are available when his life is in a position that allows him to be capable of running a relationship successfully, then you two will connect all over again."...so do you suggest that if after trying my best to move on with my life, if after 2 years (his mom had actually told me that he may be ready in 1-2 years, and taht I should "stay in touch", I had refused - how can I stay in touch with HIM if he won't respond, and how can I stay in touch with HER if the reason to stay in touch with her is her son who is not responding to me - AND we all live far apart!! (He in California, me in Wisconsin and she in India!!)...if I have not found someone to replace him that should I make contact if he has not - bec given his gender, ego and the fact that he may think I would reject him bec he had walked away from me without giving me good valid reasons and that too by email?
You weren't the one walked away so it's not *your* job to chase after him. It's his job to walk back to you.
He doesn't need contact because he doesn't need reminding of your presence nor your effect on him. He has his memories to do that. You still are, and will remain, very much alive in his head.
And, frankly, if a man really wants you then not even you yelling, 'Will you eff off and leave me alone!' will put him off. He'll just bide his time whilst he waits for you to calm down again and then execute another advance attempt. Men who are in love with you are very, very persistent. That's WHY anti-stalking and -harrassment laws were first brought in.
He has been the only man in my life, who has liked and loved me for who I am on the inside ...and that has been the hardest thing for me in letting him go...
He may be the first but he WON'T be the last. I guarantee it.
And maybe he was the only man whom you ever opened up to to that extent. Ever considered that?
Anyway, it sure as hell won't be 1-2 years (ridiculous). Nobody turns their back on A1 chemistry for that long if they can possibly help it.
Now, get re-building your self-esteem until you can say to yourself, My GOD, even with my faults I'm bloody gorgeous!'. THAT's what men find irresistable. ;-)
xoxo
Wed May 19 2010 - 05:51 pm
So was it right to have sent him a nondrama email acknowledging that I understood his situation and this was not the right time and he should feel free to contact me?....bec I think that I was quite clear in it that I was NOT going to be the one contacting him again...
He wrote in the breakup email that "I am conciously trying to forget the fond memories we had created together" and in my last email in addition to the above, I had written "I cherish our reltionship" ...he was always the glass 1/2 empty and I the glass 3/4 full in the reltionship....if I was the ONLY girl who he had ever loved (as his mom told me that "Seema is the best thing to have ever happened to me and I wish I had met her 20 years ago") can he really be trying AND succeeding in removing me from his memories??? Please don't say "no" just bec I want to hear that!
He was the only guy I found worth opening upto....I sure hope you are right taht he does not wait more than 6 months. It has been 6 weeks since he sent that break up email on Apr 12th...
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