Hi Smartblonde

You have entitled your post "He dumped me but doesn't seem to want to let me go!!", but re-read your post from an outsider's perspective. Notice anything?

I am possibly missing some stuff here, but it comes across more as if you are the one who is not wanting to let go of him rather than /or as much as the other way round? Come on, be honest! :-) (And that's not a judgement, just an observation. We've all been there so you're amongst friends!

He indeed responded to your email immediately - BUT - remind yourself who initiated the contact in the first place? And also, how come you didn't just send the key back to him (secure delivery) with a polite note rather than emailing him to ask? If you imagine how you'd act with someone you definitely didn't want to see, I'd be willing to bet you'd have just put it in the mail and had done with it.

So - in answer to your question - yes, it's perfectly fine for you to contact him, but if your motives are (deep down) because you hope to get back together with him - then you know the rules: he will come back of his own accord (without any prompting over lost keys or whatever) he he really wants to...

Yes, I do realize what my question reads like...Obviously, I have not completely let go...he also, did not have to respond in a couple of minutes to an email that did not require immediate attention.
I asked him how he wants the key return accomplished, an option to send it in the mail in a multitude of secure ways, he doesn't go for any of these, instead says, 'I'll get in touch with you and we could get together for lunch..' I won't do lunch with him again. It means nothing.
The smart thing for me to do, to make a very strong point would be to send it to his work place, I thought he would suggest this, he did not, it is the perfect option. I did not suggest this, because I wanted to see what he would say.
No, I don't hope to get back with him, HONESTLY I don't, do I still have feelings, YES but I'm moving forward in my life, one of the reason I sent an email. To get him and his key out of my life!

SB2

Lol! :-)

In that case, take the bull by the horns and send the key back to his workplace. Job done, game over!

SB,

First off - do you owe me any dosh? ;-)

This new data, i.e. it's style, is very revealing. Basically, he is receptive whenever you make a move/serve. And disproportionately high compared to the actual incoming stimulus. Analogy: "Would you like a piece of cake?" / "Oh, my God - thank-you so much, thank-you-thank-you-thank-you... Here - have a Rolex as my way of saying Thank-you!"

You are, you must admit, very cool. I've sampled you. Cool, calm, over-controlled, seemingly underreactive on the outside surface. Inside = storm raging.

That phonecall he made right after lunch: Were you cooler than he was during it?

Are you too cool for him??? Does he feel overly vulnerable and precarious because of this?

Actual question: Are you "too cool" for any male ego? Or is this HIS particular ego problem (due to baggage)?...i.e. he needs extra-big and -bold Green Lights before he'll dare drive through the intersections? RSVP.

I now think this girlfriend (working on the assumption she's anything of the sort) is him settling - 'better than constant non-reciprocation and heartache yet better than nothing/no-one'.

Whatever else you want to call it, IMO that reaction of his proved MAJOR PANIC. Panic over the signal 'You are about to lose me for good'. The housekey is his symbolic tie from you to him (just as your coat was), and you'd just threatened to sever it.

You could say he just had a conveniently free moment. But were that the case then the mobile message would have sufficed. No - he wanted to get hold of you in order to damage-limit properly and fully.

Because note how the hand-over of the coat wasn't made to include the key when that would have been the logical action of a couple who were in full agreement to break up for good? Forget - did ya both, eh? ;-p

You need to honestly answer that above question.

xoxo

Soulmate,
Wow do you get me!!!I am a very collected calm woman, however, I can assure you I'm not too cool, I have been very receptive, warm and engaging with him on every level, with every encounter...He is a very confident man, he goes after what he wants and is not in the least shy about it. When he wanted me...it was a relentless pursuit, with lovely words, actions, gestures. So, I'm not too cool for him or we would never have gotten together in the first place.
As far as the girlfriend, I think you are correct, he is settling in a way, she is, I'm sure very sweet, nice, safe and someone to be with rather than be alone. He knew her from before we met, had her listed as a friend on facebook from before he and I started seeing each other, if he had wanted to date her before me, he would have. She was convienent and available and knows a good thing when she sees it.
The KeY, of course I knew I had the key, so did he, I never mentioned at our meeting last month, he never asked.
His response this morning, was astoundingly quick, he called from the Court House, where he has been selected to possibly do jury duty, so he had some time on his hands..I was just a filler, don't you think, although, he always sounds upbeat and happy when he talks to me and you are right, I make a move, ask a question and he responds, I would like him to make his own move first. He said he'll call me re arranging the RETURN of The KEY..so many ways to do this, but it sounds like he wants to meet again....
SB2

I am a very collected calm woman, however, I can assure you I'm not too cool, I have been very receptive, warm and engaging with him on every level, with every encounter...He is a very confident man, he goes after what he wants and is not in the least shy about it. When he wanted me...it was a relentless pursuit, with lovely words, actions, gestures. So, I'm not too cool for him or we would never have gotten together in the first place.

You answered me too quickly.

But - "warm" instead of "hot", noted.

Honeymoon exacerbates and exaggerates, particularly when it presents a relief-giving contrast to what was suffered beforehand in terms of ex-relationship. Getting together in the first place is not the same as maintaining togetherness. Did you over-exaggerate your ardour (or, rather, let loose the tigress within due to temporary abandonment) and then slink back to Default You (image-consciously over-cool) once the shock and novelty wore off?

Were or are you compatibly hot by your standards only? Or is "warm" your leaked subconscious confession????

Did you, only in/during your abandonment, match his confidence as expressed via heat, but were unable to sustain that as normality took over once again? Think again, and harder, glasshopper.

I say this because you're cool and collected here where you don't even have to be.

As far as the girlfriend, I think you are correct, he is settling in a way, she is, I'm sure very sweet, nice, safe and someone to be with rather than be alone.

If she is safe then that suggests you aren't (as equally as Being Alone isn't). Gotcha ;-) Tell me how you are/were unsafe.

He knew her from before we met, had her listed as a friend on facebook from before he and I started seeing each other, if he had wanted to date her before me, he would have.

Bravo, Holmes!

She was convienent and available and knows a good thing when she sees it.

Or she's a very helpful friend (wanna bet on it? ;-)).

The KeY, of course I knew I had the key, so did he, I never mentioned at our meeting last month, he never asked.

No. Ha..ha..ha. What a pair of pretenders. ;-p He ain't THAT confident, then, is he, eh?

His response this morning, was astoundingly quick, he called from the Court House, where he has been selected to possibly do jury duty, so he had some time on his hands..I was just a filler, don't you think,

Nope. A little filler is given the chance to phone/text back because a little filler holds no importance thus urgency.

although, he always sounds upbeat and happy when he talks to me and you are right, I make a move, ask a question and he responds, I would like him to make his own move first.

You sure he hasn't???? Have a cleverer thinkipoos, Mrs Mink ;-)

He said he'll call me re arranging the RETURN of The KEY..so many ways to do this, but it sounds like he wants to meet again....

Oh, so now he has to make another call in order to arrange the arrangement he could have made there and then???? PMSL!!!! :-D x 100.

But I'm not going ahead in any direction until you have that longer think. And I want this: "I swear on my mother's life that I'm not repressing my natural passion and effusiveness and therefore coming across too measured by ANOTHER'S STANDARDS, particularly a Once Bitten Romantic Partner, which is possibly being interpreted as Not Keen Enough = Unsafe".

'Ard enuff?

xoxo

Soulmate, you are one brilliant individual, I like your style, of thinking and writing...There is one area in which he thought I was unsafe, you are not going to like this, you may even think him very shallow after I tell you this...

He and I had been seeing each other about 4 months. He, right from the beginning knew some aspects of my life were less than perfect, I never pretended otherwise. He, when we first met did some research online re, my late husband...My husband was in the broadcasting field and well known, it was also well documented that my late husband was a heavy duty gambler. All this was public knowledge. In the beginning my guy was very reassuring about facing any challenges I had together, he was always going to be there for me, etc., blah, blah, blah...
I believed him.
At the four month mark, he had some questions about my finances, as I had told him I was going to sell my house, this raised a red flag for him, whereupon we had a conversation in his car one Sunday afternoon, when he expressed his concern for my financial situation, more for himself than me me...he said, and I quote, " I'm disappointed, I was hoping to be with someone who is financially secure and with whom we could meld our things and have a nice life from here to the end.""
And that, my dear Soulmate, marked the beginning of the end....he gradually pulled away from me, a week later he said, his feelings had changed and he didn't know why, and that he wanted to miss me.I went along with his request for space every weekend for 6 weekends,
had him over to dinner at my home and then realized as another weekend loomed, that I should just end it, and so I did, it was what he wanted.
Months have past, took months to get the coat. Never a question about his house key being returned.
Sounds like neither of us will admit it to the other, but we have not let go, I realized a long time ago, I had not but what about him.
I think he just likes to know I still like him and he could probably get me back if he wanted me. It's a an ego stroke for him don't you think that's all it can be..

Are you telling me, I should in anyway tell him how I feel about him? Don't you think he knows, I still like him, or why would I give him the time of day....??Does he need to hear it straight out. How would you suggest that be done? He is involved, if he really wanted me, he knows how to do it....especially, if he believes I still like him...come on...toss me a bone here!!!

You haven't made that statement yet. Nice dodge attempt, tho. :-)

xoxo

I can so relate to all of this. It takes time to let go (and yes, hanging onto the key is part of that) but let go you must.

There were reasons why you broke up, and only time and distance will heal that part in you which is still hurting, and that which misses being in a relationship.

I encourage you to double your efforts to build your new life. Now is the time to start some new projects which will keep your mind (and heart) active and focused.

You ask whether it would be wise to have a chat with him about how you feel, and having been down this track personally with a man I was very in love with (and like your man, was also involved with another after we broke up), I can tell you, this is not a good idea.

Yes, he knows how you feel - there is no need to spell it out to him. He knows if he wants to, he can return, however, he's choosing to be with another. You need to accept this. And I think you deserve so much better as you're a classy, strong and together woman!

Act with strength and dignity now as you forge a new life.

A book I've found very helpful in letting go relationships that are no longer working has been "The Language of letting go" by Melody Beattie. I read that like my bible when I was letting go my fellow, and it helped me stay with my strength and my dignity.

Wishing you well...

Thank you Trace, I will check into the book...

Soulmate,
I'm not sure what you think I am dodging...What statement....Can you spell this out, for someone who is clearly mentally challenged..

Thanks, I await your reply..
SB2

SB,

unsafe it is............

But, my own little two cents here...and I am sure SM is seeing something more than I am...But, surface looking in...

If his feeling honestly switched when he learned of your financial situation, I would Never question or look back at that one...

I bet ya though, SM is going to look at the change in feelings from a different angle and shed an entirely different light over it...

Probably having something to do with Safety and control....

hmmmmmm....

xoxoxox

Smarts, I picked up on exactly the same "red flag" as Strong...
"If his feeling honestly switched when he learned of your financial situation,..."

I had a situation here for the past couple of weeks with Wine Guy.
He lives the the neighborhood. (check)
He helped my carry my groceries (check)
He told me his wife died. (check)
He told me he has a 5 y.o. (check)
He called me in AC and left a message (check)
He calls me regulary (check)
He came over and made me dinner (check)
He told me he knew my father (check)
He told me that he subbed for my classes years back (check)
He told me I was exquisite (check)
I can go on and on....
THEN
This Sunday past:
I ask ALL the right questions by the grace of God.
I find out stuff and things that made me look at this guy in an entirely different light. He didn't lie. NOPE
I just got to know him and I didn't like what I learned about him.
NOT MY CUP OF TEA at all.

Soooo, this guy, SB2, wants a partner who is financially stable. Period. He thought you were because... you were but not any more.

You said it:
he said, and I quote, " I'm disappointed, I was hoping to be with someone who is financially secure and with whom we could meld our things and have a nice life from here to the end.""
And that, my dear Soulmate, marked the beginning of the end....he gradually pulled away from me, a week later he said, his feelings had changed and he didn't know why...

WHY??? You know why. Because he said it. He's disappointed that you don't have money.

It's terrible that he said that but that's who he is and that's what he wants... from what you have told us, IMO.
Auds
xoxox

Auds,

Yes, but I think that there is more...

(I am going to try your method of writing here:)

1.not keen enough=unsafe

2 If he had wanted to date her before me, he would have.

3.Image-consciously over-cool

4.She was convienent and available and knows a good thing when she sees it.

These are just a few of the issues I picked up on, I am sure there are more...But, If I had to guess SM is trying to get SB to look with in herself here...Maybe not so much for this current guy but for the next one down the road..

There is an air of elusiveness (with men) surrounded by self protection and image control that comes through in SB writing...

In regards to the money issue...I know that if a guy suggested that to me, It would of been my feelings to change immediately and that would of been so obvious that it would of "marked" a change in his "feelings". There are two ways of handling that, walking away from the relationship as soon as it is said. Or, going into a conversation with him in regards to it...A conversation where I could try to understand his statement on his every level...

In mean time, another way of looking at it is this...If it was truly about money and him thinking or wishing you had more (gave you a quick open door)...Be thankful he was at least honest about it...My last one just embezzled it all away!!!

xoxoxxo

I agree with you, Strong.
Smarts, are you listening to what Strong is saying?
There are two ways to handle this. It's your choice...

"Be thankful he was at least honest about it..."
He was just being blantantly honest about it.

There's always MORE than what is posted. ALWAYS.

Smarts, What do you want to do about this situation, hon?

BTW... How's your self-esteem lately? Can you spell that out for me?
WE WANNA KNOW...

Auds
xoxox

Hi all of you,

Unfortunately for me, because I am a widow and was married to someone well known in the community, there is an assumption made that I'm a woman with money..I don't make any pretenses about my stituation, what would be the point. This man was aware that my life was not all that rosey, he didn't seem overly concerned and I never used him in any way nor would I ever. He is very financially secure and proud of it. This stuff came out of no where, a few weeks before, he was telling me that I was his finish line girl...so much for that..the finish line was apparantly just a couple weeks down the road.
I did not like what he said, of course it hurt me deeply and shocked me, as every action to that point was kind, loving and sweet. So I, despite this horrible remark,I held out hope it would pass and all would be well. It was not.
But for some reason, he never really let go of me...he found someone else and yet he finds a reason to contact me (and I him) I understand that I have welcomed this attention. What is in it for him, surely his ego is stroked enough by another woman's attention, he does not need mine too. And yet, he does. What do you think he wants, I know what I would like..Why can't he just let GO..compeletly. I await your responses..
My self-esteem is actually good despite his statement. I know my worth as a woman, money has no bearing on that.
SB2

SB2

"he didn't seem overly concerned and I never used him in any way nor would I ever"

No one here suggested that you did....where did that come from?

Does the "new girl" have money?

xoxoxox

ps...we keep going back to the money part...How were you when you were with him? Available? elusive? nurturing? secure? image controlled? cold? etc....

psss..on a side note, he sounds arrogant, would you really want someone like him anyway?

Dear StrongEnough,
The new woman in his life, I don't believe has money, she is in her fifties, has a good job, and is probably ok money wise...she doesn't, from photos that I have seen posted on facebook, look like a woman with money..
When we met, he told me and I quote him, " You are the ulitmate in a partner, you have, beauty, brains, humor, presence and personality"..his description of me, not mine..I'm not full of myself in that way. Nice to hear at the time,however.
I was very available,loving, caring, nuturing, secure in myself (until this event with him surface, that threw me) I'm not image controlled, I have a certain look and style, that I'm very comfortable with, it has been me for my whole adult life and I believe it is a very approachable one as I have lots of friends and I'm about as far from cold as you can get...He may have thought I did not include him enough in my family and their life but that area was starting to warm up very nicely, so I don't see what it could have been except he was worried that any challenges I might face might be things that he, upon reflection, did not want to take on.
If the main reason was indeed that, then what's his deal now. Why does he continue to contact me. It is not necessary. Clearly, he did not want me in his life, he made that choice months ago. What is the draw now.
Hope you have an answer, I sure don't.....
SB2
Interesting that you read him as arrogant, that was the one thing I told him from our first meeting, I disliked in another person..he assured me, he was not that way..of course what else would anyone say under those circumstances, time has proven him to be wrong, he is exactly that..

Hey, blondie:
What do you think he wants, I know what I would like..Why can't he just let GO..compeletly. I await your responses..

HE WANTS YOU. he wants his damn wish list fulfilled.
Why can't you JUST be his dream girl that is financially secure.
Dammit, he's thinking...just dammit:)

Auds
xoxox

ARROGANT def. is:
proud and over-bearing through an exaggerated feeling of superiority.

Is that how you would view him, SB2?
Is he haughty, selfish, arrogant and narcissistic?

Is he selfish as well? He has moolah and he wants what he wants.
Wanna know how I know???? Hmmm?

You know the answer, Smarts. You ran in THAT circle.
I worked in that circle and I lived it through my younger years because my Godmother and Godfather were working for Ethel Kennedy's family in Greenwich, CT. Yep. I met Michael Skakel and I know that family as well as Nelson Doubleday's family. YEP!

Soooooo.... you are very special to "HIM".
Auds
xoxox

At his heart, he's a little boy - he gets his ego boosted by having you still interested in him. It feeds his male pride. It reminds him that he has seductive powers to have such a high quality woman as yourself still hankering after him, not to mention the woman he goes home to!

This can be a dangerous place for us as we so want the man we've let go to suddendly declare he was wrong all along, and life isn't worth living without us blah blah blah...

The reality is - he's immature and he was only ever prepared to commit to you conditionally. You saw how quickly he turned away the minute he found out you weren't the woman of substance he thought you were.

You're probably quite right. This other woman he's with doesn't hold a candle to you. However the fact that he's with her just tells me he's elected to have an "OK for now" relationship. Perhaps when he's identified another suitable candidate (one that has money), he'll drop this woman like a hot potato?

Hi Girlfriends,

Well, talk about a smart blonde making a stupid mistake...here's one for you..
He called me yesterday, as I have mentioned at the beginning of this thread..and I by mistake, really by mistake, called his cell number today, (his number is right above my daughters, easy mistake when you are driving and not wearing your glasses) when I realized I had done this, I hung up immediately, too late, he saw that I had called him and..He called back immediately. The conversation picked up where it had left off yesterday..I mentioned the house key I have and suggested for the second time that I would mail the key to his office for security reasons...He sounded very disappointed and said, oh, I really would like to take you out for lunch..he also keeps bringing up things he knows about me, those little things you know about someone that are part of the past relationship.
He is far to up beat and happy, laughing etc., when he is talking to me..I just don't know what he wants...

The question is not what he wants, but rather what you want (and deserve). I'd like to see you put some more energy into that.

You are so right Trace. I realize all of this. I just find his actions really hard to understand, he is not a child. He has a girlfriend. Maybe what I need to do is tell him I can't be friends with him, after the relationship we had, I just can't be his friend it is not what I require. I have plenty of friends.
I'm starting to believe that he actually wants to have a friendship with me, I find this very unusual, when couples break up this is not the usual place they find themselve in, maybe after a long, long time they can be friendly but they can never truly be friends and they don't make a point of staying in touch, with any excuse being the reason for the contact.
I think this man still really likes me even though he has someone else, maybe part of him has a little regret he let me go....that's why he is still around (Yes, I know, I have let him still be around).

MAYBE? Maybe he has a little regret? Duh!
I think so.

You ARE a fantastic woman. You are authentic. You are real.
Maybe he has a little regret?

Friends? You don't need friends. You need a proper relationship in the real world with it's ups and downs AND you need to know that NONE OF US CAN EVER fulfill our "wish list". There's always... a little somethin' that urks, no?

I may be wrong but...
Auds
xoxox

A man wanting to retain contact even after he's moved on (and may possibly even be with another) is, I have to say, pretty common. Because we are high quality, attractive and intelligent, it makes a man feel damn good just being around us. It is precisely because you are so high quality he is reluctant to let that go entirely from his life.

It doesn't mean he wants the relationship with you to continue, and it doesn't mean he will give up his new life, it just simply means he feels good when he's around our energy. And it feeds his ego...

However, this is not a good and safe place for us to be as our emotions are all over the place, and it hurts!

It also makes the seperation easy on him. He still has you to a degree so he gets weened slowly. He gets to stay comfortable while you are in turmoil questioning his motives and it prolongs you moving on while it helps him to move on.

Trace,Auds, I think you are both correct in your opinions,
I now see some regret on his part, but he won't necessarily change anything.

Thanks for the nice things you guys think about me.

SmartBlonde2 is still confused, this man has a way of doing that to me..

I had the indignity of a man I was very in love with, retain some contact with me for a few years after (we'd catch up over coffee every six months or so). When I later found out that he boasted -to his new partner, of his "conquest", I was absolutely mortified!

Robin is also correct - retaining contact with us helps a man stay nice and cosy.

Please try not to put yourself down for being confused. Actually, I'd say you are very smart - and getting smarter by the day!

Hi girls,

I can see a lot has happened since this morning..:)) In regards to being friends with ex's...I have kept friendships with most of my ex's..But, that is only possible when feelings are gone on both sides. If one still "holds" on to the idea of possibilities...it does not work.

In regards to what he wants SB2...what does your gut tell you? It sounds like you have an idea...

Going back to the money issue AGAIN::)))...what I found interesting is that you suggest this current gf does not have any..So, that can't be the reason for the two of you not working out. Family could be a possibility it sounds like? But, I keep holding onto how you might be when you are with him..I don't know why? But, I am...

Having a lot of friends is great but who we are with them verses someone were dating (newly dating) is two different things.
I know that I don't respond to my gf's the way I do with my bf...especially one that I really like..lol!

SB2, if you don't mind me asking, how long have you been widowed? And, how long were you married?

xoxxoxoxox

Hi StrongEnough,
I was married for 25 years and started seeing the man I keep talking about after my late husband was gone 2 and half years...I was a great girlfriend!!I know I was at least from where I sit, that is not my ego talking, I know how I was in my relationship with him...
I think not including him in my family as much as he apparently wanted, was a big deal to him, but he never really let me in on this fact until we were almost over..Too late to fix a fixable situation.
The money thing may have been overblown in his mind, it may be something he realizes now.
All I know is, he sure likes talking to me, and frankly, I'm starting to think, if he thought he could call me a couple of times a week just to chat he would, providing I was not expecting anything more.
We always did like talking to one another, the first time we met for lunch, we had almost a five hour lunch...
Here is an interesting note...he actually set a day this month for another lunch together, almost one year to the day we met..he is a strange man, and yes, I'm probably strange too..
If you want more information about my life I'd be happy to give it to you.

Hi SB@,

Ok, so here I go...Just warning you, I tend to be a tad direct, so if I ask too much just say so...

Was he your first relationship since your late husband? In regards to the "family" issue....is this in regards to kids? Like protecting them from your dating life? And just to clarify, you dated this man for only 4 months right?
In regards to arrogance, Auds gave the def which I think is only half of it....I have too, ALWAYS, been attracted to arrogance...But, what I have learned (and through experience) Every arrogant man that got my attention, was in the end, extremely insecure within themselves...It was a shell of protection and nothing more...

I don't know why I found arrogance attractive...I just did...I was very confused between self assured, confident, grounded, smart, successful, loving type of man I would want in my life and arrogance. Those that on the surface show it through their superficial toys (jobs, cars, homes toys and body language)I confused the arrogance or percieved confidence for a good man...Bottom line...as it turns out, none of them really believed in themselves or knew who they were...they were just a part of show looking for the Main character to take the stage....

His comments on money spoke volumes into that direction...

The talking together will keep you hooked in. And it's not fair to the other woman as well.

Do you have any other male friends you can associate with? I know this helped me move on from my guy who at the time I considered was the love of my life and also like yours, my first BF after I ended my marriage of 20 years.

The real issue here could be fear. Fear that you will never again experience great love as you have with this man, fear that you will never again have the connection you had with this man. I can tell you, love is possible again, and in fact you'll go onto have an even better love as next time you will be making wiser choices.

Dear StrongEnough and Trace..
No, he was not first relationship after my husband died. I met someone who ended up not being who I thought he was initially, he was very selfish and not interested really in my family, not affectionate enough and on the 'cheap' side..I ended that relationship, but I waited a long time to do it because he was the first outing into the dating world since before I was married, 25 years is a long time between dates, don't ya think..
Anyway, I may have wanted to make sure everything was really as it seemed before I let anyone else get too close to all my family, a little self preservation, also my kids who are not little by any means, found it strange to see their mother with a man who was not their father...I can understand that all to well, so I was very careful, with regard to both these men and their involvement with my family.
MY relationship with the last man was amazing, he was everything the other man was not, he was far more openly loving, affectionate, kind and generous in every way, until he wasn't. He made a huge fuss about my kids in lovely ways, calling my daugther on her birthday,
calling both kids on New Years Eve, asking them for their cell phone numbers and giving them his, so they could always reach him, if they needed me..very sweet gestures.
As for arrogance, my husband was arrogant, it displayed itself as confidence, masking some deep rooted insecurities, that was a very good way to explain it, thank you..I realize, that I like a confident man, that I hate arrogance in anyone but now see how I can mistake if for Confidence..I have done that in all three of these cases. Suddenly, that is clear. The arrogance covering their own insecurity. So if there is a perceived flaw that suddenly appears in you (the woman) their own insecure hidden feelings cause them to feel as though they have made a mistake in their choice of you as a partner.
I was madly in love with guy number two, kinda like Diane Keaton in 'Somethings Gotta Give'....I felt like her..she said for the first time in her life, she really fell in love..well girls that was me.. I married my husband who was many years older than me, when I was a young woman, I loved him for sure, but over the years, he didn't change and I did. In the end, I knew I needed something very different than what I had.
How is that for an answer.

Hi SB,

You have obviously been thinking this issue over for some time, there is something unresolved in your feelings for this man that your statement that you want him out of your life just doesn't ring 100% true. It could be ego, maybe it was the money shot, maybe it's some inner latent-type anger over the sweet words then the about-turn from him.

And there's obviously something in this for him, whether it's because he just enjoys talking with you, whether it's because he still has feelings for you and thinks about a future with you or any other reason, the man still clearly has something going on for you. You could waste or spend a lot of time trying to figure out intentions - but to what end?

It really comes down to this:

Would you consider trying again with this man? Don't make the answer dependent on your reading or analysis of his behaviour - but decide if this is a place you'd want to visit again?

It's a yes or no question. If no, then you have nothing to gain by meeting for lunch/talking and it could be said you're both stroking egos by trying to confirm/guess each others' interest. Send the key back, drop it down a drain, wrap a note around it saying it opens a safety deposit box with a million dollars and leave it on a park bench - the choice is yours.

If yes, then you could start to think about what conditions/actions/words would have to take place to make that wish a reality. Are you brave enough to admit you miss him and would like to try again? Should you talk about finances and clear the air over his ill-expressed disappointment?

I'm not trying to be blunt to the point of rudeness here, but if you genuinely don't want this guy in your life any more, move on, forget him, and find something worthwhile to occupy your thinking time. I don't know if he's arrogant, good for you, anything really - but it's your decision and your choice as to what your future holds, and indeed what you spend your time mulling over in your head.

I wish you all the best with it and whatever you decide to do I hope it leads you to a happy place.

Tork did it again, nailed it. SB, read it over and over, I still have his post to me that turned my thinking in my documents. Again thank you Tork.

Tork, Before I give my complete response, do you actually think I should acknowledge the elephant in the room..and tell this guy I miss him??

I have to agree with robinincarolina,
You nailed it. Clearly, I am not over this man. I love him and miss him. Yesterday, when I suggested mailing the key to his office, he absolutely did not want that to happen, he wanted to see me, and adds the lunch into the mix to the make whole idea seem even more attractive....When I mistakenly called his number on my cell phone (yes, I really, really made a mistake) he immediately called me back, although I hung up as soon as notice my error,I wasn't even sure it had connected, I hoped it had not..too late.
So yes, I would try again with him but he is seeing someone else. Yes he likes talking to me, but let's face facts, men never do anything they don't want too, he has plenty of people he can talk to, he has a GIRLFRIEND he can talk too.... When he was pulling away from me he started calling me less, seeing me less. I can't believe he has forgotten what signal he is sending by so quickly responding to an email or to a missed phone call. If he was not at all interested, he would not respond or he would take a long time to do so.
He also could have said, to toss the key in the garbage, when he did not jump on the idea of mailing it to his office (for security reasons) he sounded disappointed, and I believed a shift had taken place in him and some part of him may have started to acknowledge that he misses me. By the way, we met one year ago this month, perhaps he is remembering how we immediately felt connected, neither one of us wanted to leave the other on that first day..I never felt like that about anyone before.
SB2
PS THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME TO WRITE TO ME.

Good Morning Smarts,
Just reading up on your post and responses:
"I really would like to take you out for lunch..he also keeps bringing up things he knows about me, those little things you know about someone that are part of the past relationship.
He is far to up beat and happy, laughing etc., when he is talking to me..I just don't know what he wants..."

I have had a similar situation at the beginning of the second round with swiss miss. he stayed on the phone for hours with me a few years back. he told me that he remembers "everything". he clearly enjoyed my company and we had a great dinner date once or twice a year.

I didn't know what he wanted either. He would travel for business and then HE decided that beginning of December WE would meet for dinner. So, when I finally felt more relaxed in 2006, he asked me why?... and I told him I'M OVER YOU, I HAVE TO BE. That's when I took control over this "relationship" and when I followed through by not contacting hime for Christmas or New Year's or his Feb. B-Day THEN he called me for Easter 2007...
So, where did that get me? To the DWD boards.

There is something amiss with this guy and, I'll agree, that it's quite possible that he is remembering this time of year when you first met. He wants that feeling back. You miss it too.

Here's what I think that I would do in your situation. I would have a phone conversation with him and let him know that you don't want to be friends with him. You are looking for a long-term relationship that is open and honest. You feel that money is not as important as a respectful relationship and because he has told you that he was disappointed that you were not financially secure - use his words - then he quite frankly told you that he is not interested to become a partner. Tell him that you miss him but "quite frankly" you are disappointed in that he values the finances more for whatever reason.

Everything else about him is so wonderful and this is so confusing to you that you cannot be "just friends" - not right now - and thank him for that dinner offer BUT - sorry you'll have to decline.

Be strong and firm about that. Follow through. No need to be hurtful just show your integrity and level-headedness. show him with actions that you are a Goddess.
As I said above...that's what I would do. Still, it's your choice.

Auds
xoxox

If he is missing you SB, and you continue to see him and talk to him then he won't be missing you because you are easing that void in him with your presence. You are giving him instant gratification and in the process making it harder on yourself. You want long term satisfaction, not instant gratification. I agree with Audrey. Let him feel the complete loss of you and then he will have to figure it out. Tell him why you have to do what you have to do, show your vunerable side and walk away with your head held high. You will increase your value in his eyes and it will have nothing to do with your financial status. A man respects a woman who respects herself and sticks to her boundaries and it true to herself. Go into no contact and don't put a time line on it. I have been no contact for 4 months. I know that if a man truly loves you, he will find you. He will do what it takes so it's time to put that to the test and know once and for all. As long as the girlfriend is still in the picture you have to trust his actions, not his words. Girlfriend still present is a big action you should not ignore.

Smarts,

I am with Auds and Tork both. The only way you are going to get past this is to put yourself out there. If I thought it was all about the money I wouldn't even suggest such a thing.
But, basically, he is now with someone that has none or at least not a lot, so I am inclined to think that statement of his was meant one way and taken another. I think possibly the family issues played into it some how and maybe some elusiveness from you..Certainly NOT suggesting the reasons you are not with him today were YOUR fault though!
But, anyway, you need to move on with your life and STOP worrying what he wants and is doing with HIS.
If you want him to be part of it, you just need to come out and tell him so...Your feelings. NOT that you then turn around and have an affair with him, you just very honestly tell him that you are not interested in meeting him for lunch, because you do still have feelings for him and it would be too painful. You miss him and would like to know if he feels the same. etc...however you would like to word it...Now you are releasing the truth and he has no choice but to state his truth back. Be prepared for rejection and to move on...Your questions will be answered and who knows it could go the other way as well...but just have yourself prepared for....
Mailing him the key, bury the key, sticking it in a box on a park bench or throwing it away! And in regards to your coat, well...hmmmmmmm...probably don't want to mail that. lol...maybe a third person pickup might work.
I think that whatever it is he wants or is looking for from you will come out at that time of your honesty and directness. Be prepared for rejection. And be prepared to move on with your life with no more pondering over him. You would have to stick to it...
None of us including you really know what he might do with your honesty...But, after you put that out there for him you will have all the answers...Guessing game over!

xoxoxxoxoxoo

ps..I myself went through a break up like this and refused to move on with my life..I was soooo in love..so I called him to meet him one night and I put my heart out on the table for him...we got back together..But, I wish we hadn't now!!! Things usually don't work out in the beginning for a reason. Sometimes we need to accept those reasons and just move forward!

SB,

Yes I do think you should acknowledge the elephant in the room. Call it instinct if you will, but it just feels like it would be the right thing to do. It's funny because you mentioned Diane Keaton up above somewhere, and even before I read that, I nearly wrote a sentence about you living in some socio-romantic woody allen script over this one - like an intelligent romcom. Maybe that's even part of the appeal, that it hasn't been easy and that there are obstacles in the way? But you know the denouement in most of those types of films comes when one character is brave enough to let themselves be vulnerable.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in agreement with the ladies here that this guy made a big mistake with his money comment, but I do wonder how that impacted both of you, because you explain it as a cause and effect - he said that then he withdrew from the relationship. Experience tells me that he said it, you reacted, even tacitly, he reacted to that, you reacted to him reacting and so on. So whilst that may have been the catalyst, it was also the downstream reactions which led you to where you are now. And that isn't a criticism of any reaction you made by the way - perfectly natural and understandable, it's more an acknowledgement that there's a complex series of chain reactions which sour partnerships.

So where you are now is in a place where you do still have feelings for him, and he still has feelings for you obviously.

As has been pointed out, he is now dating someone else, but we don't know how serious that is. His comments about money reveal him to be someone who is risk averse and values security, and I'd imagine he would take a similar approach to his personal life. What I'm saying is that unless he gets a clear signal from you that you still like him, and would still consider a future with him under the right conditions, then I think he won't risk the rejection. I can't claim the no contact experience of the good ladies here, though I hope I have an understanding of the DWD principles.

My advice then, is to risk a little vulnerability by revealing you still feel something for him. Don't do it in a way that demands a response - just be strong about it and honest.

If I were you, I'd meet for lunch or just coffee and I'd prepare what I wanted to say in advance and be ready to leave when you've finished saying it. Maybe something like:

"I want to tell you something and I don't want you to interrupt me, because it isn't easy for me to say. If you want to respond when I'm done, you can.

I still like you, and I miss what we had. I like you enough to still consider a future with you in it but I can't make that happen by myself.

Firstly, I don't know how you still feel and think about me. Secondly, you're not single now and you would have to be for us to have any chance.
And thirdly, we'd have to talk about financial security because you expressed how much that means to you and I think that conversation played a big factor in why we didn't work before.

So that's me, with my heart on my sleeve. You don't have to respond, this is something I needed to say for me. I won't be sitting waiting for you for ever, but I wanted you to know how I feel. You know where and how to reach me if you want to."

Amd then it's up to you whether you leave, or if you wait to see if he responds. The ball is then firmly in his court - you don't need to do anything more - there are only two possible outcomes:

He acts upon it or he doesn't.

Don't feel you have to take this advice - at the moment you have the frisson of the unknown with the pleasure of suspecting he likes you, rather than the certainty of knowing either way. You may prefer that to knowing, I'm not trying to remove that from you if it's what you enjoy but I think, given what you said about your marriage, that you owe yourself the best chance of happiness you can find. Wouldn't a little vulnerability now be a sign of your strength?

My Dear Tork,
First of all, he doesn't know that I know he has a girlfriend....and he has never, ever mentioned he is with someone..I find this strange behaviour. By not telling me about her, he could, one, be trying to spare my feelings or two, if he tells me about her, it almost makes him look like he in some way is cheating by continuing to have contact with me and by wanting to have these lunches..it would spoil something for him.
I have someone in my life who is interested in me, so I have not entirely stayed stuck in this situation. I went out with the new person once a couple of months ago and we are going to go out again in a weeks time. I was the one who gave the new guy the brush-off, I still had not at that time gotten my mink coat back from, Mr. Don't Know What I Want Man", so I was really still very stuck.
I have acknowledged to myself the need to move forward. So I am trying, I also want to be fair to anyone who is interested in me that I have a free and clear heart.
The man with whom I had the relationship is a very dynamic, confident individual, who should have no need of attention from me on any level but clearly, he does and clearly I provide it.
Perhaps, you are right, I should tell him that I miss him in my life and that just being friends is just too hard for me and let the chips fall where they may.
There is an episode of 'Friends' in which Rachel wants to tell Ross she loves him and all her friends tell her not too, because if he rejects this feeling, she will feel hurt and like a fool..She does it anyway, he says, 'thank you'..that is the worst thing that can happen to a man or woman in that stituation.
Your male opinion is very valuable on this site, thank you.
All the women are great to be sure..thank all of you for your patience with this troublesome situation..
All I know at this point, is that the music is still playing but the dance is almost over....someone has to ask someone to 'Dance' or sit this one out!

SB2
xxoo

Agreed, Smarts:))))
Now, you've got it. It's all about you and your feelings.
You know he's "dating" another woman and that hurts:(

You are protecting your heart and not sparing his feelings.
That episode from "Friends", a favorite show of mine, has captured the essence of what is going on here, I believe.

The last thing you want to do is be more hurt and look foolish.
The money comment and the fact that he's pulled back and has started dating someone else is enough reason for you to pull back and reassess who this man is and what he really wants.

The chips will fall where... but you need only to take care of yourself and not worry about him:) You know THAT, GF.

Act like a lady, think like a man... as the book says.
Auds
xoxox
xoxox

Auds..
Do you think at the lunch I should tell him, that I can't be friends it's just hard..I'm not looking for another friend.???

Thanks,
'Smarts'

Auds,

Sometimes it's not about the last thing you want, but about the thing you want most.

The thing SB most wants is to at least give herself a chance with this guy, there's no shame or foolishness in SB actually admitting that to him, it's independent, shows integrity, maturity and the worst that can happen is someone knows SB likes them enough to front up and say so. If he doesn't want to do anything with that info, she has to bear that, and I'm sure it would hurt too - but it doesn't leave her looking foolish and as SB is not currently in a relationship with him, it doesn't actually leave her in a worse situation.

We can either spend our lives worried about the worst that can happen, or we can seize the opportunity to grab the best that can happen. Sometimes we can't make the best happen on our own, but we can do our part. Unfortunately, we can make the worst happen on our own, and sometimes we don't even need to do anything to achieve it.

SB, I admire you whatever your decision.

Tork, thank you...you display a tremedous understanding of the human condition...
I admire you too!!
SB2
xxoo

Tork,
I said:
Everything else about him is so wonderful and this is so confusing to you that you cannot be "just friends" - not right now - and thank him for that dinner offer BUT - sorry you'll have to decline.
-------------

I don't think that I suggested to SB2 that she shouldn't give herself a chance with this guy. I also don't think that there is shame or foolishness admitting to it...nor is there any guilt.

The worst that can happen is that his ego is fed and she is left with feeling like sh!t.
if he doesn't want to do anything with that info, she does NOT have to bear that, sorry Tork.

She can protect her heart by telling him how she feels about him and at the same time decline his invititation explaining WHY.

He's confused and confusing her... that's not good behavior.
So, in response he DOESN'T GET TO SEE HER.

Smarts is a beautiful woman and deserves to be treated with RESPECT.
He is not you, Tork.

Tork would never do that to a woman like Smarts.
That's your "problem", Tork :)))))
You are a SWEETHEART; He may or may not be.
Understand, I'm here for "my GF"... and I don't know this guy.

Why in the Universe couldn't someone like YOU, Tork, meet up with Smarts. Answer me that???....lolol

Lots of admiration for YOU, Tork.
Auds
xoxox

Auds how sweet are you girlfriend...
You say nothing but nice things about me and unfortunately we have never met, you are a wonderful woman and your lovely comments and advice, are extremely valued by me...
Tork, are there more guys like you out there??If so, where are they????????

SB2
xoxox

Well - boo-hiss to British Telecom but Yeay! to Snuff and Tork. (Hopefully my interweb probs will be sorted after the weekend.)

I'm not sure I agree with being that open and honest in terms of plain discussion, though - I don't think he's quite ready for that. You two haven't exactly been openly and honestly communicative and I think a sudden 100% honesty might send this guy into shock! :-D (But as to the rest of what Snuffs and Cagney said, - yep.)

Slowly, slowly, catchee monkey. Poker - not Throw all your cards onto the table at once. Furthermore, this was a joint mistake - why should YOU be the only one to lay your heart on the line???

He wants to play this "silent movie" game? Then, you play it, too. BUT BETTER :-) Cleverer.

My request for that sworn statement was indeed to get you to analyse all the pertinent moments in your relationship with him and how YOU came across...*including* how you reacted when he gave his little speech about the financial implications of your situation, as Snuffs so insightfully touched on.

Let me give it to you with both barrells HOW I could tell that your face at that moment would have dropped:

"Mink" coat....... "Mink-Mink-Mink-Mink-MINK!"...."PS: Mink!" (;-p)

(Sorry? What is your coat made of, again? I don't think I quite caught it?
;-DDDDD!!!)

Wherever you could quite easily have just said 'coat'....a la 'he has my coat' or 'my best coat'. Nay - only "Mink" would do. You've said it about 10 times or more by now. Yes - we get it - you're used to having money. Money enough to buy a mink fur coat.

You think anyone would assume that, having been that used to a highly comfortable lifestyle and all its accoutrements, you having found out your husband had basically thrown a lot of it down the drain and left you with serious financial difficulties, wouldn't CONCERN you in the slightest? Yuh, right.

I've gone from a million+ pound house down to one worth half of that. *I* don't give a sh*t because I grew up with parents who were, between my ages of 6 and 16, stinking rich one minute and poor the next (bad business ventures, embezzlement, recessions, etc. and an upper-middle mother who could spend it faster than my highly talented but Cockney father could earn it!)...which is why I'm not sat here going 'What's the time, everybody? Oh, let me look at my diamond-encrusted Omega watch....' ;-ppp (...although I just did, so :-p to me, then) (...although she made me do it, everyone! ;-D)

I had THE most rotten marriage with my high-earning, multiple-company-owning ex-husband whilst some of my best love relationships had been with "poor church mice" (the high-earners all proved to be d*ckheads or miserly outside AND in), so, the fact that Simon had/has very little left after spousal/child maintenance and paying for two houses worried me not a jot! By then, I desperately wanted only a wealthy heart.

BUT IT WORRIED SIMON. Oh, BIG TIME! He couldn't conceive that I would see him as cutting the mustard if he wasn't able to compete with the ex-husband nor 'keep' me in the manner to which I was accustomed. Do you think he voiced that fear and inadequacy to me - straight-up? Nay, nay, nay - he made comments like your fella.

Mr Confident GETS IT, TOO. And it worried him what YOU might think about HIS ability to provide for a woman such as yourself who clearly - Mink-Mink-Mink! - values wealth... even if, in more precise truth, all you NOW value is the sentimental or familiarity value of these status symbols.

But HE doesn't know that.

That statement of his was a typically male-styled Button-Push and Projection. He wanted to see what your reaction would be if he basically implied to you, 'I'm not sure I want to share my wealth with you, you have to love only *me* - for richer or poorer'. So I imagine it wasn't what you and your ex-hub LOST in terms of wealth as much as what - he realised via his research - you both had HAD to lose in the first place! From his POV - why would you be interested in him?

...which is PRECISELY why this guy who *supposedly* rejected you due to your lack of wealth is still very much unable to let you go. BIG, FAT, CELLULITE-RIDDEN *FUNNY, THAT*, eh?!!

It's YOU who is judging this as his reason. That's YOUR issue (as well as your more palatable excuse). He pandered to what he believed must be your issue as if it were his, in order to know, was his lesser wealth a problem and, indeed, was what he does have (or what you might believe he has) a reason for your interest in him? (Confident, my bottom (pff).)

And your answer, was.............................?

It could be that you felt insulted by the sentiment of his statement, including that he was making it in the first place, rather than the point it seemingly concerned (money) and it was this feeling insulted that reactively showed in your face or the tone of your voice at that point, which HE (in his honeymoon hypersensitivity, added to the fact he saw a red flag in his not being merged fast enough into your life/family) misinterpreted as meaning, 'Oh... Well, if you're not willing to be my Sugar-Daddy-style provider then I shall have to have a re-think because ALL my men have been wealthy, ectually...'.

So I don't think you should bring up the money issue at all seeing as how he's DISPROVING that so-called issue/expectation by not letting you move on from him, and you, meanwhile, are DISPROVING your own so-called issue/expectation by agreeing to still meet up with him, thereby not allowing him to move on from you. You're BOTH looking elsewhere with one hand still tightly wrapped around each other's sleeve.

Just continue recreating the first Honeymoon flush, like I advised before - fun, light, positive, flirty, tempting, playful and good-humoured... - and you two will rebuild your relationship without any problems. The misinterpreted money discussion *will* at some point be raised and better explained, but - now is too early, IMO. ANY serious talk is too early, quite frankly.

Again, obviously, you give him nothing BUT agreeing to a friendly lunch (if you can manage that without getting too upset or impatient in between times) (and date for the distraction and to keep your needs fed and sleeping, meanwhile) so that you don't even put yourself in a position where you can end up feeling used or, worse, like the mistress. No boyfriend work? No boyfriend perk.

You'll be able to see/feel your progress as a couple, as you go. Obviously, if after a couple more lunches you feel there's zero increase in intimacy nor any upping of his outward ante (e.g. suggesting evening meals), then you can think about saying to him 'I don't want a friendship that constantly leaves me feeling deprived, and if you cannot/will not give me more then - So long, kiddo' (i.e. No Contact in order to make him grieve).

...Slowly, Slowly, Catchee Monkey... If you want it to stay caught, that is.

You can say or undo (as you two have already proven as mentioned above) anything and everything you need to via solely actions. If that wasn't perfectly possible and MORE than adequate then we modern, *speaking* naked apes wouldn't even exist today (fink abaad id).

xoxo

Soulmate, WHEN are you available for that "walk in the park".
Isy our name Thsresa or is it just my imagination... I can't remember!?!
But I DID have a dream about you last few nights!
What's up with THAT, I wonder? Scary sh!T, for me...
Audds
xoxox