Even on the surface you aren't ready for a new relationship. I'm always astonished at how quickly women (and men) move on after a MAJOR break-up like a marriage. What tends to happen if you don't give yourself enough time is that you fall back into the same patterns that got you into the bad relationship in the first place. And yes, you are wise to want to, at least, be separated first...I'd quite frankly recommend being completely divorce first...but take the time to be alone...discover that the world doesn't end just because you ARE alone.

Yes it's lonely, but lonely isn't fatal. It feels like it, but it isn't. And I speak from years of experience in this area. What has joyfully happened during this time...and it's been 8 years since I kicked Mr. Icantkeepitinmypantsormyownhome to the curb is that I've learned about me...what my values are...who I am and what I want out of life and that I can stand on my own two feet. It's such a gift! AND once you've established those values, and WHY you have them it's much easier to keep your distance until you're ready for the physical and emotional connection to a particular man (not just ANY man...but the one who has the potential to go the distance).

I made a few mistakes the other way early on and what I ended up attracting were men who were so much like my ex but I couldn't see it. And I got hurt...and nearly drowned in a mess that could have been avoided if I'd taken the time to completely heal and grow from the beating I took in my marriage (no not literal beating but it might as well have been from the pain I was in). A whole person has much better judgment and boundaries.

I'm honestly grateful now (I can't believe I'm saying this...) for the time I've had alone.

It is a tricky one. After I decided to break up with my partner of 15 years, I met the next man pretty much immediately. I had of course heard of the risks of getting into a new relationship right away, but I thought as the break-up had been my decision, it did not matter. How wrong was I!!!

On the superficial, short-sighted level it makes perfect sense to have someone to 'help' you over your heart-break, it appears to take away some of your pain. I am sure there are cases where having a relationship soon after a break-up works out perfectly well. It certainly did not work for me, I was vulnerable and attracted a very manipulative man who realised that I felt very guilty for leaving my long-term partner and did everything to reinforce my temporary low self-esteem. You know the drill, 'you are indeed a horrible person, I am absolutely the only one who would put up with you.' Needless to say he looked perfectly charming and loving when we first met. I also know if I had been in a healthy place of my life, I would have never allowed anybody to treat me like that. Fortunately, I came to my senses, left him and am finally got to the place where I am myself again, actually a much wiser and better version of myself!

It doesn't have to be as dramatic for everyone as it was for me, but I think one has to be very very careful. Jumping into a new relationship may be a way of running away from your pain. I always say, acute pain is a useful symptom, as it forces us to do something about it: go to the doctor, stop overdoing an exercise, rest and, in case of acute emotional pain, see it as a blessing in disguise and use it as an opportunity to do some proper soul-searching and learn your life lessons.

I agree with K203, spending time on your own is incredibly valuable and actually good fun!

Sweets,

You just want a reality-check, innit. Buckle up, kiddo ;-)

Firstly, I had no idea you'd moved back in. Why didn't you say, before now? Or did I miss something?

Anyhoo. This is a case of 'staying away from the stables' versus 'getting back on the horse'. However, you've made things very difficult for yourself by agreeing to continue the pretense of a marriage for the sake of the children. I'm not sure that's the best move myself, as the 'children', I suspect, love the situation purely because - in their simplified view they imagine that the next step - recovery of intimacy between mum and dad - is easy-peasy and inevitable from there. (I don't suppose you've filled them in on that non-inevitability yet, have you?)

Personally, I don't subscribe to nor recommend that methodology because - although it's giving in to the children's need for instant surface desire-fulfillment, the unavoidably affectionless climate between you and your 'ex-not-ex-husband' is a far less than ideal mental template to be building into your childrens' minds, when it's a template that will to a large extent dictate their own ideas and expectations as to what their own romantic partnership and marriage should be like. I.e. it doesn't fulfill their longer term NEEDS. This will not take conscious effect, by the way, meaning they will have little control over it once they reach full maturity. I'd also add that, as young teens, this stage looms already which means, with attention becoming attuned to all things romantic they're currently *highly* influenceable (and warpable) on that score.

As to you, you're feeling the detriments already. It's not hard to imagine that having a man around will, irrespective of zero desire for him (putting it mildly), place and keep your mind into a heightened state of expectancy - which is then consistently being unmet... and daily. In other words, you're bound to feel that much *more* lonely and starved of affection than you would were you living alone (with either full- or half-time kid custody).

Different if you and your husband were still affectionate best friends despite wanting only platonicness but, from everything I read from April onwards, I doubt that's the case. This, therefore, is self-sacrifice for your kids too far, to the point of martyrdom. Be aware that this in tandem with ongoing base needs deprivation will eat away slowly but surely at your self-esteem. Avoid that if you possibly can, is my strong recommendation.

And might I remind you that your kids are teenaged? That means another few years and they'll be flying the nest, anyway. So what are you actually achieving?

Instead, therefore, of supplying their short-term gain for long-term pain, I urge you to reconsider.

Onto your love life:

You're conflicted so you're giving out conflicting messages: Want a relationship versus Not in a position to have one.

Rob clearly matched you in that conflict. Yet at the same time, you (woman - faster to recover) naturally need more mental and physical intimacy than he was ready to partake in, despite the fact you yourself don't feel ready for the complications of commitment (or beholdenness) that orthodoxically goes hand-in-hand with that.

What you actually need, if you 'tilt your head' a little, is an "extra marital affair" (in the practical rather than emotional sense) with someone who's in the exact same position as you.

...in which case I highly recommend Matchdotcom :-D.

And let's put this 'independance' factor back into its rightful place, shall we, in view of your individual situation? Needing regular, transgender, human-to-human affection - a highly crucial base need - doesn't mean that you cannot have an independant sense of self. Different if you had zero social life, no job, etc., and thereby relied on any man to give you a life. Needing adult affection, etc., is an instrinsic humanistic need; it should be a given.

YES, there are some who need a period of mourning after a marriage goes splat but - you? You already long did that (you grieved inside the marriage for years before it got to the point of total and irreconcilable deterioration). And let's not forget that the marriage was lacking in respect and affection long before even that point was reached, meaning you've already been YEARS without the means to satisfy what should be a human given. (What are we talking - ten years?) I imagine that base need must be crying out for satisfaction at a deafening volume by now, right?!

In other words, the fact that *following* a period of alienation then protracted solitude (i.e. the separation period) this need is indeed beginning to wail its head off like an unfed newborn, is, note, your very sign that you ARE, in actual fact, ready for a relationship.

To "F":

You don't have to tell him anything. As you already know, the DWD guidelines show you precisely how to keep a man at a much slower pace when he's in too much of a hurry to get cosy. So I wouldn't keep repeating that 'friends' line, if I were you - or he might decide it best to believe that line over all the more subtle signs and communications, and move on in search of someone else. ...Particularly as you wanting to be only friends isn't even true ;-p.

So - keep thy DWD bible in thy top bedside table drawer, my child, and... soon enough you'll be singing "Ahhh-ahhh-aahhhhhhhh..." with the rest of the best little choirsters ;-D

Hope that helped, mush.

xoxo

K203 and Wise,

Thank you so much for your comments. Choosing the wrong guy because I feel desperate for attention is pretty much what I worry about. As for myself, I lived alone for 4 months (March to July) and went through all that soul searching - that was the "went through hell" reference. In the last couple months, I no longer feel like I'm drowning, if you know what I mean :-)

I don't think you can put a time on how long it takes to get over a marriage. The intimacy was already gone and I was healing even while technically married. So how do you know when you're ready for a new relationship?

Soulmate,

I have my own room and the children know that we are not getting back as a couple. I moved back in on the advice of my lawyer, because it looked like I was going to have to take hub to court to get a divorce. Remember, I pay all the bills, so I was damn well going to live in my house with my children. After our attempt at negotiation failed in September, I started a court case against him, and finally hub broke down and agreed to cooperate if I dropped the case. He starts a new job (lo and behold, he is capable of working when pushed!) on Monday and has been reasonable. That's also taken a huge weight off my shoulders. We will get divorced without any nastiness.

The FB suggestion is a good one, but I've been there, done that, not interested anymore in a relationship that is purely physical. I want a good mental and emotional connection as well, you know what I mean :-)

As for F., I hear you. I haven't used the "friends" line since Tuesday, when we met for a coffee. I meant it when I wrote it - seeing as we hadn't met then, so I reckon a girl's allowed to change her mind.

Oh, absolutely - it's your Dicky Dawkins-given prerogative! :-D xoxo

.

Looks like tufkagk's done a runner/clean-up job...

SM:

As you already know, the DWD guidelines show you precisely how to keep a man at a much slower pace when he's in too much of a hurry to get cosy.

Yeah, I'm getting the hang of this. He had his kids after we met up on Tuesday and he's on a business trip abroad this week. There was a window of opportunity to meet up yesterday afternoon. He sent an email that he was going to take the kids back to the ex - but at no point did he suggest meeting. I had to just hold myself back from jumping in and taking the reigns. I have made sure he knows I'm interested, but he'll have to make the next move. He's already sent me two text messages today, so I know he's thinking of me :-)

Sorry for screwing with the boards ladies. Got a little freaked that googleing my username brang up all my comments. I don't mind sharing personal stuff with you, but I need to remember I am potentially sharing it with a lot of other people.

No probs tufkagk.

Just thinking aloud here: I've been writing to F. for the last 7 months. Although we met on a dating site, I was pretty clear that I wasn't looking for a boyfriend. I explained in a mail to him at the weekend that I had met him as friends to avoid unrealistic expectations of each other. Now that he knows I'm interested he's upped the communication flow.

I reckon a week in a lonely hotel room with not much going on (he told me the place he's going is a dump) will give him lots of time to miss me. And time for both of us to let our thoughts catch up with our emotions. And I keep trying to keep my feet on the ground, 'cause all we've done is one coffee meet as friends.

Sweetie,

If you are looking for a good excuse to go slow....rebound relationships soon after a divorce or separation are notoriously destined to fail. Tell the guy that you want to keep it slow because you don't want this to be the classic rebound relationship (for both of you.) You want to get to know him and move slower than you normally would since both you and him need to do some processing and internal calibration. It is the prudent thing to do. Set boundaries, be careful about risky situations where you are tempted to jump his bones. Do some research, gather some statistics. Tell him you DO want the two of you to have a chance and not become just another statistic. Use logic. Keep it formal and friendly and fun.

Like Robin says, (and this is crude, but I think she's right....) make sure you unload the gun before you go out. And another of her tricks, talked about on her other threads...."dry heaving..? That can't be it! But something like that...Robin, help me out!

Might work?

SZ

Set boundaries, be careful about risky situations where you are tempted to jump his bones.

Well, can't say the thought hasn't crossed my mind...in the early hours of the morning it gets worst.

Tell him you don't want the two of you to have a chance and not become just another statistic.

I'm going to assume that's a typing error since I do want the two of us to have a chance :-)

Really, thank you. I'm going to try to keep my head on straight. We can talk, which is a big part of the attraction. The turn on for me after our coffee meet-up wasn't so much lust as the wonderful feeling of connection and trust. That was a shock to me actually. I wasn't expecting chemistry to feel so comforting.

Oops. Corrected.

Wrote something on confidence and insecurity thread which may also apply to your situation.

Your desc. above about talk and trust and comfort sounds like me and my bf. Take it slow and you guys will be alright!

SZ

Thanks szs. I also saw your other post. I'm thinking it's good he's gone for a week where there's no internet. He sent me a text before leaving to say that was the mobile number he was using (he's got two numbers) - which kind of suggests he's half expecting me to initiate contact. Needless to say, I won't and don't text unless I'm replying. I'm feeling much more grounded today after a day without contact, funny that. Guess Robin nailed it, the hormones need time to settle down.

I am used to being in control...or at least feeling as though I'm in control :-)

I don't like waiting. I don't like not taking the initiative. I don't like ignoring wishy washy signals (reminds me of when I was 9 and the boys would pull my hair or tell their friends to tell me they fancied me).

I am a bit intimidating, I think. I don't do pretty.

Why can't I be the man in the relationship anyway???

ARGHHH!!! Just ranting. We had a really nice email exchange on Friday which I initiated...and that's it. I am NOT going to initiate again.

Sweetie, love your comment!
Why can't I be the man in the relationship anyway???

It's so true...LMAO. If I were president...

We can multi-task and they can't. Maybe the wiring was not perfectly done so that we can appreciate imperfection and uniqueness.

Otherwise, it'd be "Sodom and Gamorrah" all over again...
Who knows... teaching us PATIENCE and VALUES...who knows???

Auds
xoxox

Hehe, he wrote to me about an hour after I posted nr. 15 :-) We'll see each other next week. And I'm a believer in DWD. It makes sense to let the man lead the relationship, them being slower on the uptake :-) (generally speaking, or at least in my experience)

Spoke too soon. We won't see each other for 3 weeks. At least I'm convinced now that his signals are clear - it's his calendar that's full. And we're both more than a little cautious.

Sweetie,
hope you are ok.

hang in there.

xoxo
Linnie.

Thank you Linnie.

I am tired of thinking logically. I just want a hug...

OK, I think we are moving into a period of stability. Like when he went on his work trip, we can "wait" for each other without getting freaked out by nerves or over-thinking. It feels nice and comfortable, just knowing we are both on the same page. He is extremely responsive, as I am, no doubt. Mmmm, and a real sweetie :-)

Here's a written hug!
<0>
#
/ \
Actually it looks more like someone doing jumping jacks! Well, its the thought that counts, right?

Actually, with this formatting, it doesn't look like anything!

Just want to say thank you all for the support. I got my real-life hug Wednesday night; turns out he couldn't wait 3 weeks after all :-)

Decided to delete this post as I don't want to update anymore.

Is everything still going well?

I'm happy, just looking at different options. I met someone new on Saturday and he's much more bold and interesting than F. I'm feeling a bit like a soap opera, lol, so I decided to take a break from posting.

Thanks for asking :-)

Glad to hear you are happy. I come and go here in phases too:) Wow! A new guy. That's exciting:)

The new guy's a notch above the rest, that's for sure. He seems real and dead keen. I'm cautious, but on the whole that's probably the best way of keeping him keen. He's got to prove himself. Still, it's an ego boost to meet a guy who appreciates me for my intelligence, my sweet nature and my kissing :-)

Here's your hug from me Sweets. :)

and this made me think of your hug request! so cute!!

Linnie, it's you and me up in the wee hours of the morning, wellme...not sure where you are. Those are adorable.

Awww, that's so cute Linnie. Thanks :-) Maybe I should make a badge with the picture from post 31 and walk around with it. Hehe.

darling,
I logged off after posting those and went to bed. :) it was pretty late on my end too (Australia).

how's your progress on colors going? next will be to upload pics!! :)

Sweets,
you're welcome. post 31's pic would def loo cute on a t-shirt. :)

xx
Linnie.

Had a little urge there to delete post 29 as well, but stopped myself. New guy's got problems with his ex over custody of the kids. I've got a date with F. tomorrow, so I won't be twiddling my thumbs. Hmm, if I can get one more into the mix, I can do a "Robin" :-)

Sweetie,

Define "do a robin" so I can add it to the relationship glossary!!!

LOL

SZ

Hi Szs

I meant RobininCarolina's circular (?) dating concept :-)

Is there an entry for that already? There should be...

Now there's Kim: kind, approachable, attentive, reliable. We've been writing every other day for 2 weeks from a dating site. On Saturday I gave him my number and said it would be nice to meet him. On Sunday he reciprocrated in kind, suggested 3 days when we could meet and said he would have to check his calendar at work. He phoned Monday evening to set up a date for Thursday. All done by the book. It really doesn't have to be difficult, does it?

As for F., we had a nice evening last week watching a film and then we walked and talked a bit. He wants to be friends, and says "Friends can also kiss" and I am like, hmm, I don't think so. Soooo, we hugged a bit, but that was all. I accept that he isn't ready for a relationship, and he accepts that I don't want to sleep with him as long as we're only friends.

I figured out the pattern I was repeating. I was attracting men who had 2 youngish children (7-10 y.o.) and were less than one year out of a long-term relationship. In other words, men who did not have the energy for a new relationship. Rob, F. and "disappearing guy" (post 27) all had that profile.

In other words, they had too many issues. It really was them, not me.

So I've found me a guy who doesn't have issues and is emotionally ready to start a new relationship. It's like a breath of fresh air. I think I've shied away from childless men before because I have imagined that they would be too impatient and have too high expectations, but I find with Kim that he is prepared to take things at the pace that I feel comfortable with.