Dear sp,

We use the term 'emotionally unavailable' quite flippantly and sometimes maybe also label a man ‘emotionally unavailable’ because he simply wasn't into us and, let's face it, it softens the blow :).

My ex accused me of being emotionally unavailable and though I did not believe him (and still don’t), I thought it would be a good idea to learn more about the phenomenon. So I read 'Emotional Unavailability : Recognizing It, Understanding It, and Avoiding Its Trap' by Bryn Collins. I very much recommend you read the book

Emotional unavailability wears different hats and though it is easy to spot the most obvious signs, there are more subtle, yet just as damaging forms.

When talking about the most classically emotionally unavailable individuals we are referring to what the psychologists describe as those with AVOIDANT attachment style (but this sure is not the only kind) and their common features are listed below:

1.Intense anger and loss
2.Hostile
3.Critical of others
4.Sensitive to blame
5.Lack of empathy
6.Views others as untrustworthy
7.Views others as undependable
8.Views self as unlovable or "too good" for others
9.Relationships feel either threatening to one's sense of control, not worth the effort, or both
10.Compulsive self-reliance
11.Passive withdrawal
12.Low levels of perceived support
13.Difficulty getting along with co-workers, often preferring to work alone
14.Work may provide a good excuse to avoid personal relations
15.Fear of closeness in relationships
16.Avoidance of intimacy
17.Unlikely to idealise the love relationship
18.Tendency toward introjective depression (self critical)

.

...myst, sounds like the classically defined "Total Package" version of A-hole to me! LOL!

intothemystic

That is not specific enough terminology for me, I'm afraid. Nor very helpful. Also, I don't like to use inelegant language. So when you say 'a#!hole', I would say 'an individual with an adult attachment disorder' :). Potato, Potatah ;)

Dud Spud; nay, Too good Tuber true!

I always considered emotionally unavailable to simply mean not available TO ME for whatever reason.

In other words he could be a perfectly good guy, but just not into it. Might or might not be because of issues he has but the outcome is the same.

Did I misunderstand?

Yes, that is how I perceived "emotionally unavailable" also theta.

wise, you just described a former bf (what piece of work!). Now at least I am armed with some good information. Thank you!

Wise, I am just now reading "Emotional Unavailability"! It's really good.

I think emotionally unavailable means simply that he is not available to give me emotional attention to me at this time. (ie. love, caring, listening, empathy, etc.)

A guy may be emotionally stable, but also still be in love with his ex. He's emotionally unavailable to me because his emotions are still tied up in her.

Or some guys really do have deep emotional problems. One that I have enountered a lot is anger issues. The only emotion they can show is anger. They have flash-tempers where they get really angry for a second and then it goes away (inappropriate displays of anger). These guys are not emotionally available, because they can't display happiness, joy, sadness, or any emotion other than anger.

I don't think that a guy not being into me makes him emotionally unavailable. His emotions are available, but for whatever reason, he doesn't feel it with me. He'll be available for someone else.

However, if a man is into me, but can't show it, or shows it inappropriately, or is super afraid of rejection so hides his feelings, or is so afraid of being vulnerable that he only displays anger, that makes him emotionally unavailable.

I'm still on the lookout for a stable, emotionally secure man. Any suggestions of where to look? :)

tinydancer...Look within yourself...like attracts like (as SM says).

thanks ladies i think im catching on about this emotionally unavailability!

One thing I always check carefully for (ahem, confession time, this took me years to learn) is what relationships a man has in his life. Emotionally unavailable men tend NOT to be able to sustain healthy relationships with family, children, friends...if you have a man with good relationships in his life, that's always an encouraging sign...

trace i like that reply. now u have me thinking

Trace, I completely agree. My post #2 is a pretty accurate description of the last man in my life (before meeting him I was Wise, now I am Wise_until_it_happened_to_me :).

We met on the internet and it was a trans-Atlantic affair, so I could not really assess him properly and he just blew me away with his exceptional intellect.

I responded to his first e-mail saying I wasn't interested in a long-distance relationship. He persisted and among other things said:

'I'm 53 and never married--not for lack of opportunity, but because it's just rare to find the physical and the mental attraction in the same person. The physical aspect is relatively easy, the mental aspect is much, much harder, and the combination, “fuhgeddaboutit”.'

I had never been involved with an emotionally unavailable man and instead of going RED FLAG, I thought, well, I am looking for the physical and the mental attraction in the same person too!!! I really thought I had found someone special...

The ironic thing is that this unbelievably intellectually generous and exciting man who was a textbook case of emotional unavailability happened to be a renowned emotion expert, co-author of dozens of books written on the very subject; probably knows more about scientific basis of different aspects of emotion than most of us mere mortals combined together, but he never falls in love, never had a long-term relationship, he clearly felt fiercely uncomfortable with somebody experiencing an emotion that he couldn't control or study.

So I fell in this trap big time and though I am beginning to be pretty OK, I am still secretly licking my wounds :).

The important thing for me about understanding that he was emotionally unavailable is that I can relax and stop going through every single thing I said and did identifying all the little mistakes. Yes, I could have played it better, but that would have just prolonged the illusion of a relationship. I could have stood on my head (sorry, a clumsy translation of a very appropriate idiom in my language), but it would have never manifested in him moving to England and having an actual meaningful relationship. So I have stopped beating myself up about what I did or didn't do. Lesson learnt, next...

wise, so perhaps there is another more important reason he hadn't married by age 53. Sure would've loved to talk to some of his exes! How long has it been for you now (sorry, skimmed over that post)?

"stood on my head" is well used here in the states as well...must have got that one from the Brits! ;)

Exactly, oh little darlin.

It has been four months. A bit pathetic, but I still think about him every day. I date very actively and have been out with quite a few lovely guys and recently with a couple of slightly less so men, but I really have always liked exceptionally intellectual and smart men and all my ex-partners have had that in common, so that makes it just a bit harder to find somebody who I find exciting enough. But I am hoping that I will find someone who isn't just intellectually and physically compatible, but also emotionally. I am looking for a man who has secure attachment style :). Should be easy, I just read that in the western society over 75% fall into this category!

Hope you are getting rid of your sinus trouble (is it acute or chronic?) and you will get to see your sweet little Mia very soon.

Good night!

Go a bit easier on yourself Wise. Four months is still pretty early on. It took me years to get over my emotionally unavailable man, and then if that wasn't bad enough, I went straight into another situation that mirrored the first! You can imagine the beat up job I was doing on myself because of that!

However, as your name Wise suggests, we're fortunate to be free and far more clued up now. Nowadays, I bless those two unavailable men from my past as they've taught me so much! I am the strong woman today just because of them.

I'm sure you'll find what you want in time. You're such a wonderful woman.

wise...four months is not a long time, your wounds are still open. It has been almost a year out of my last relationship and I am just now starting to heal...it does take time and work and you've got both on your side. Hang tough, it will happen and you will find that man you are looking for, you just need to be ready. :) I would say it is acute sinusitis...a real pain (pardon the pun). Yes and I will see Mia soon. I just want to say this to you wise...there are many wonderfully insightful people on here and you are one of the ones that I place at the top! You have so much wisdom to offer and all of it has logic that is easy to understand and relate to...Just wanted to share this with you. :)

Trace, isn't that the truth! How could we get to here without being there... Well said. :)

It's totally true that the truly emotionally unavailable ones, the ones that have deep-seated problems, tend to have bad relationships with others in their lives.

I fell for an emotionally unavailable guy once. He clearly had problems with his parents, didn't have very many close friends, and had not had any romantic relationships of any length, and he was approaching his mid-30s. If he mentions stuff like this, these are clues that he does not know how to sustain a relationship of any kind with another person.

Thanks, Trace and oh little darlin, for your generous words and support.

And you are both absolutely right, what doesn't kill us, makes us stronger. And if I may add to this Nietzsche quote: wiser.

Maybe I am soon ready to upgrade my username from: Wise_until_it_happened_to_me to Wiser_since_it_happened_to_me :).

My very very very best wishes!!!

Oh, by the way, I was talking to my longterm ex-partner and we were joking that it would be a good idea to ask for references from your ex when you enter a new relationship. We have known each other for 20 years, 15 of them together as a couple and have such high opinion of each other and would be absolutely delighted to write top recommendations.

But I suppose not everyone is blessed to have such an elegant human being for an ex, so I don't think this idea is going to be hugely popular :).

True there is the man that is emotioanally unavailable because he is not into us and then there is the true emotioanally unavailable man.

I agree with Trace about his relationship with others. If he has no true friends that is a huge sign.

Also one I recently experienced with my ex. He was always joking and we were always laughing. I thought that was so great until my best friend pointed out to me that was another way he had to avoid any kind of deep conversation about his life.

Numerous failed relationships where he does not really volunteer any information about also.

The independence thing too. Not asking for your help for anything. My ex when he was sick would never even consider me bringing him something. He also avoided getting into any domestic situation like cooking together, etc....

Like Wise, I did not see it until it happened to me.

Hi Robin,

You are so right about that because my last boyfriend came from a broken home. He left home at 15 to live with some neighbor. Then, he was involved into being a giggalo activity. Got with this older woman who bought women over to the house for him to sleep with. Also, he told me "I left home and made it so they wouldn't ever find me." He didn't have any family members who kept in touch with him and I found that extremely strange.

He too would never let me take care of him while he was sick. He couldn't handle me being emotional because he doesn't like showing deep feelings. He told me once that every morning he wakes up angry but puts on this happy demeanor. So, those were big red flags of someone unavailable emotionally. I think the only reason he had been with the last girlfriend for five years was the fact they bought a house together. He had put alot of money into it and didn't want to loose the house. He just used her for attaining house because his credit is bad.

wow mittens thats quite a story and now i have really learn what emotionally unavailable is all about

I can relate to all of your stories also.
Broken home. Physically and emotionally abused by father. No current relationship with ANY family whatsoever.
Yes, he has friends, but keeps them at arms length.

Robin....We were always, always laughing. That was one of the biggest reasons I fell in love with him. (My ex-hubby had the sense of humor of a sock, so I swore my next relationship would be with someone that made me laugh.)

Wise...When I am feeling down, I also tell myself that I could have "stood on my head" (heehee) and nothing would have ever changed. It was not me. It was him. Today, I remembered how in the begining of our relationship, one of his friends told me to "get out". Because he would never, ever commit. My thought at the time was "well...I am not looking to settle down..I just got divorced..so this is OK".
Needless to say, I should have taken his friends advice.

I think of it as a learning experience. My marriage taught me a lot of things so I thought I was Miss-Smarty-Pants when I started dating after divorce. I waited almost 2 years even! Boy, was I wrong!!!

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhI'm going to have my input added here:hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hhhhh
Summarizing CORRECTLY is a far greater ABILITY than explaining and analyzing each line of prose or literature.

The only way to LEARN is to analyze each and every line of prose/literature just like you needed to learn at a University.
------

I, too, have done much research on emotionally unavaiable men.
It's very difficult for me to post it all on DWD. I have volumes and have identified it pretty well. I picked and chose from RELIABLE SOURCES and I summarized it DOWN TO 6-PAGES.

Lately I summarized down some more...
I don't have it complete YET but I will. Yes, I will.

First, you need to set the scene:
when/where/who/why's - who are the characters and what is the scene.

Write it all down take lots of notes - color code it- change the words -- the exact use of words is IMPORTANT.

DO THE MATH: How much is 1+1?

When you are out of the WHY's and it starts to make sense to you THEN you are out of DefCon mode and YOU ARE a different person.
You are older and wiser.

Some people are blessed with this gift at an early age.
Some people GENERALIZE that that irritates me to no end.
We are unique and we are NOT MOST PEOPLE.
(btw, they are starting to address this issue in the health care field)

For your own well-being, YOU NEED TO GET TO KNOW YOURSELF - INSIDE as well as out.
This life is no dress rehearsalhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.hhhhhhhhhhh
Audsie << wrote this because I love you Oh! so muchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

MY KEYBOARD IS truly POSSESSED...
I needed to write what I needed to write (just IGNORE all those h's) okay?
Auds,
xoxox

Oh, and I thought it was the vino! ;)

wise, "an elegant ex"...so then, may i ask wth happened!? I hate these kind of stories where the two love and admire each other and are apart. That's not right!

yes, oh little darlin, I hate those stories too. I hate it that we couldn't be together. It is the only regret of my life so far, however I do not regret leaving him, it was a very sad but absolutely right decision. Interesting, just the other day he actually told me how much he respected me for making this difficult decision. I respect myself for this decision too.

I don't want to go into too much detail because I hate to say anything that could make him look bad. My ex is a philosopher, a most brilliantly smart and as I said elegant, gracious man, but with no sense of practicality whatsoever (anybody who hasn't lived with a philosopher, please hold your piece :). Though it did bother me sometimes, I could have fairly happily lived with it because I knew what he was like when I first met him 20 years ago and his good sides well outweigh the not so good. However, he very much wanted us to have children and under the circumstances I simply did not see how that could have been possible. I love(d) him enough to set him free, so he would have an opportunity to become more independent in the practical sense (which he has by the way) and in due course start a family; he is a couple of years younger than me and in unbelievable shape, he looks like he is in his late 20ies, so once he has fully built up his independence (in purely practical sense) I am pretty sure he will be absolutely spoilt for choice: he is incredibly handsome, tall (6'3''), very fit and sporty, very healthy lifestyle, deliciously intelligent, has two PhDs (in philosophy and in quantum physics), affectionate, secure, emotionally very available, kind, supportive, trustworthy, faithful, honest, fun, funny, respectful, very good at building a fair and logical argument (handy in solving the differences), well the list goes on... As you can tell, four years on I am fully over him :-).

Anyway, it has been very hard for both of us, but we are also very proud of how well and graciously we have handled it. There is no question in my mind that I will never love anyone the way I love(d) him, but it was a right decision, believe you me.

The only problem is: he has set the standard so high, other men can only run through under it:). No, in all honesty, since I broke up with him 4 years ago I have met three men who have at least looked like very promising candidates and with whom I have had short(ish) relationships. Though these did not work out in the long run, I consider the fact that I have found 3 guys that are exciting enough in such a short space of time incredibly promising.

So this is my story.

Wise, this is an(other) incredible story that you have posted.
When I heard ca's voice, I truly thought that it was you calling.
My reasoning was that you had said you might be needing a "break"...

Incredibly handsome, fit, smart - high standards - too high!?! UGH!
That's the problem when he's THAT guy - that came so close(except for ONE THING) to being what you are looking for in a man, you thought - that you will ALWAYS love...

Auds
xoxox

Yep Sp,

He was the first guy met with this background and will be the last man of this type to get involve with.

Hi Dwdnut,

My ex mention that his step father and biological father were abusive to his mother. The mother allowed the step father to return and my ex was forced to leave home. I truly believe there was more to that story of his leaving in such a away of not staying in touch with his relatives. He used humor to avoid serious conversations too. It's good we dodge these bullets in our life.

Yes Mittens , we are lucky.
(that's what I keep tellin' myself anyway ;-)

Be well!

xoxo
'nuts'

wise...How sad! I think one of the hardest things to do is stop comparing an ex who we loved so to new men in our lives. But in order to be fair to the next one we have to treat him as an individual just like we want to be treated. I know that men tend to do the same thing and the only way to get past this obstacle is time with the new person. Maybe there will be other things about this new person that shine for us and make the memories fade a bit for the ex. You are all too smart and I realize you already know this...but sometimes the brain accepts things better when it sees it written down and by an observer. I believe that IF you want to bend a little more and not be as rigid with your list of absolutes, it will happen. let it happen as I wouldn't want you to miss out on something very special. :)

Thanks, oh litte darlin, I liked smart men before I met him and still do, that I will find very difficult to change, in fact I do not even want to change it. The most taxing standard from my elegant long term ex that I am now looking to find in others is the exceptionally constructive and fair style of arguing/fighting. But that is kind of important, isn't it?

Yes, I will always love him, but I broke up with him four years ago for a reason and I REALLY REALLY am finally ready to move on. We see each other a lot and I am looking at him as if he was my brother, a most wonderful wonderful brother, but brother nevertheless. We needed a year where we did not have any contact at all at first to just try and move on, but we really are proper friends now, we discuss our new relationships (was weird at first, but very good actually). So I think our love has taken a new very healthy form.

I am not looking for an exact replica of my elegant long term ex. In fact not surprisingly there are some things that I am looking for that are the exact opposite.

As for his handsomeness; it was a much appreciated bonus, but I am not looking for an Adonis at all. I want a man who is attractive to me, but doesn't have to be as classically good looking as he is.

So as I said in my previous post, in those four years after I broke up with him I have met 3 guys who looked like perfect candidates and I was very excited about them and really went for them. I did not end it with them because they did not measure up to my ex, they were all absolutely fantastic in their own right and had other wonderful characteristics that he did not have. All relationships ended for legitimate reasons.

Though it is a bit sad of course, I see this whole thing as positive. I have an experience of a very good relationship which gives me a good base to go from. I think it enhances my odds for finding love again, not the other way round. And though according to ITM I am limiting my dating pool (and I don't argue with him), but we all do that to a certain extent and that is OK as it is good to know what you want. The fact that I have met 3 guys in such a short space of time whom I really really liked is very promising in my view and shows that I am genuinely open to find a new partner.

So with a lot of patience, good humour, common sense and a bit of luck, I shall find love again!!!:)

Hi Dwdnut,

Any plans for Thanksgiving Day? Are you going to be working the oven? LOL! I'm sure not. I told a date don't look for me to do cooking. I'm not a cook at all. He said, I truly appreciate your honesty. LOL!

Hi Oh little Darlin,

I agree with you give the new person a chance. However, we must use the previous experience for learning to spot the same trickery. LOL!

Bumping it up for ABaxter.

Thanks Wise.

Can emotionally unavailable men change to available, or are they always going to be unavailable? I really don't know if I should take him being unavailable personally, or just assume its his problem, not mine...this kind of stuff plays with your heart and your head.

The toughest part is trying to keep some kind of friendship with this man. Why am I trying??

Dear ABaxter,

If he is truly emotionally available and has the features as described in post #2, I would cut my losses. However, maybe it is not that bad. What makes you think he is emotionally available?

Well, the fact he told me he was emotionally unavailable right now. He wants to remain friends, but doesn't want to date anyone right now. I am having a hard time with the friends thing. The only reason I have remained friends is because I really enjoy his company and we get along really well. He has all the qualities I'm looking for, why can't this work out???

Dear ABaxter,

I read your other posts and sorry to be so blunt, but it really sounds like the healthiest thing to do is to move on from this guy. You tried, you put your heart and soul on the line, but unfortunately he is just not capable of feeling the way you would love him to feel. I don't know whether he is classically emotionally available (as in have true attachment disorder), is emotionally available at the moment or simply isn't into you.

You deserve to be with someone who gives you what you want. Please put some distance between you two, better still don't have any contact with him whatsoever as you are clearly still very emotionally invested in him. If you continue like that you are very unlikely to be able to move on any time soon.

I am so sorry for your heartache, but if you move on, you will open yourself to the beautiful opportunities that life has to offer!

Good things SHALL happen to you.

Lots of love,

Wise xoxoxo

I think we've all been emotionally unavailable at some point in our lives, I know I have and for quite a while. First in recovery mode after a split and then self preservation.

I had 2 12 month relationships during that 5 yr period, was fiercly independant never accepting or asking for help. Looking back I was a complete beetch. I did have a talk with myself eventually though, as I knew I was on remote just going through the relationship basics and not being fair on the men. SO I stopped dating but started going out with friends to different things instead.Its only really now I know I can give 100% and can spot the men who are unavailable at that level cos I see my old self and its not pretty.

Wise, that list fits me to a T! For many, many years, I was emotionally unavailable, but knew it well enough to stay off the relationships game. But when I let go, boy, did I let go! I need to learn to temper my emotional availability with some self-protective mechanisms!

Now that I have experienced my own emotional availability (partly because of my motherhood and partly due to my most recent relationship),I have two options: I can run back to my list, be safe or run forward and open up to the possibilities that life could offer and I am deliberately choosing the latter. Maybe I shouldn't run forward but saunter at a comfortable pace!