I would start to become concerned when it interferes with your time together or he can't get excited without it.

Ya guys like porn. But they can also become addicted to it. Do you feel it is excessive or are you just feeling insecure?

I have just never experienced this before. It definitly does not interfer with our time. He is very creative and expressive and I know he incorporates some of the things ( positions/scenarios) into our love making so it definitly never gets boring. I can also say we / he definitly does not need it to get excited. Our sex life is very active and healthy. I guess I might be a bit insecure...not sure. Like I said, part of me says to just let it go, let him have his 20 minutes here and there when I'm not around, but the visual in my mind kind of bothers me, although when we're together watching these movies some times, it's all good.

20 minutes here and there of looking at naked women is no big deal. Men like to look at pictures of naked women. The last thing you want to do is get all jealous and insecure when there is no threat.

Believe me, you are beautiful enough and sexy enough and it sounds like he wants YOU, the whole you and not some 2 dimensional chick on his computer screen.

It is one thing to look--When you see a hot guy in tight jeans and a t shirt do you look? Do you drool over Brad Pitt,George Clooney (insert your favorite celeb crush du jour) in the movies? Does that mean you want to dump your bf? Of course not.

Well, I think there is a HUGE difference between thinking some one is attractive and watching people have explicit sex and masturbate to it, but I get your point. I also know, or he tells me I am very beautiful and even gets turned on when other guys hit on me or compliment me, because he knows I go home to him. So your right, worrying or freaking about a dimensional "flick" should not be of a concern. Thanks so much for your views!

glad we could help

I like porn and watch it (I am a girl), and it has nothing to do with who I like or how much in a relationship.

So your saying watching and getting off on porn alone is no reflection on the relationship?

It depends. If it is not excessive--if he prefers you over the porn you are probably fine. If you are not bothered by it or enjoy it yourself, then there shouldn't be a problem.

When it starts to effect the relationship is when it becomes a problem (period).

effecting the relationship could come in many different variables too..

1. one person enjoys and the other has Moral and value problems with it.

2. One gets addicted and can't function in the real world anymore.

Just a couple examples....

But,

If you still have a great sex life and it doesn't bother you that your significant other enjoys it. And or you enjoy it together...than it sounds like you are fine.

xoxoxxoxoxo

Correct - porn and the relationship are mututally exclusive. The relationship always takes priority of course, but at times when I am not in a relationship, porn is enjoyable to watch. I also enjoy watching it with a partner when I am in a relationship.

It all depends on how you feel/where you stand on it.

Personally, I find the majority of mainstream porn unethical, and rife with gender/power issues. But do I like to watch people have sex? Yes. Do I understand that others like this as well? Yes.

Would I prefer to be having real sex, or just using my imagination during wank time: Yes.

I've dated alot of men, but when it comes to relationships I only form them with men who don't use. A little like finding a needle in a haystack, but the needle *IS* in there, and I am willing to search.

Thanks all. Was nice to come back and find the input. We have a strong relationship. We visit porn shops together for toys and talk openly about fantacies and watch adult material (HBO) together. He does not neglect me. This seems to be something he does if I am gone over nite on business, etc. BUT I do know he hugely loves it, but more by him self because he knows it isn't important for me to include it in out love makeing. We don't need it, we create our own. I was just in a very non sexual marriage before, so being with a man who not only enjoys it with me, but is attracted to pleasing him self from time to time via porn is all new. I am just trying to understand. At one moment I say "good for him!" keeps him active and thinking of sex and he brings new ideas to me and is always concerned about pleasing me. then the non educated side of me feels left out and wonders why. I suppose I should be more concerned about my partner NOT wanting pleasure, huh? I have read and been told by males responding that porn and men go hand in hand, they need the visual when they want to get off quickly when their partner isn't around, etc. and it is no reflection on the partner or relationship. I have also been told some use it for educational and new ideas. He has shown me a new scenarios and we have talked, would we like to try this? so, I guess I need to just open my mind and enjoy the relationship, which he and I both plan on being a marriage some time in the future.......

I personally would rather have him watching porn than chatting up real cuties on the net.

Sounds like your relationship is in good shape

<--Jealous. Wish I could watch porn and visit sex shops w/ my guy. *Sigh!* Guess we can't have it all.... :(

UNless you have some moral/religious/self righteous aversions to porn, leave it alone. If you do, then you might want to reassess your compatibility with this man.

Hello,

Thank you all for the continued input and coments. I have lead a fairly sheltered life to this point, as stated, my marriage was very non sexual and absolutely no conversations, so now I find my self with a new lead on life, a Fiance with whom we can talk and share and experiment and have found such freedome and joy. It has been a process for us both, as he was in a same non-sexual marriage as well before we met. It is equally dificult for him some times to bring up a specific fantacy to me because he is used to being judged by the ex, and shut off, -vs- our ability to talk openly, but it is a trust and learning process.

I don't have a moral/religious and certainly not "self rightous" aversion to porn, I personally don't require it to get in the mood, my question was more general in understanding the male psyche and what draws them to it and in my reaching for knowledge, listen to my inner voice that says it is "normal" for guys to watch it alone and please them self's to it. This has come up in previous posts asked and answered, nothing is suffering and I am not neglected in any way. In fact, we were on our way home from another town the other day and he just blurted out "where is that one porn shop we went last year"? We went, we bought, we came home and played. So incorporating stuff into the relationship and with the understanding any thing we do is kept with in the relationship...there is the "tabu" or "not talked about" hideing the porn, (or so he thinks) and using it when he is alone. It's almost like they are 2 completely diferent and seperate things. Love makeing and hot sex with me/us is ours, but porn and his hand is all his alone. I also read some where that no matter how great the sex is, men think no one can please them as well as their own hand...that being said.....normal. AND I am learning and growing.

I have been also doing a lot of reading and curiously enough, I am finding a lot of straight men interested in viewing another man's "package" and "wondering" what it would be like to do to it as we women do to them...but they don't consider them selfs "gay" but "bi curious" and they want their women their with them if another man is incorporated into the mix??? HHMMMM...........

Any words of wisdom from guys?

Take him by the hand and go Tough Cookie....maybe he just needs the nudge????

You are a lucky gal. Have fun storming the castle

Julie...I think that'd be last thing I'd want to do to this guy... he's just going to have to open up a bit on his own. See - http://www.datingwithoutdrama.com/content/help-freakout-need-input-men-a...

Julie,

The feeling I get reading your posts is that you would feel more comfortable were his interest in these sexual enhancement aids an urge that stemmed more exclusively from his passionate love towards you and need to express that beyond the normal remits. Whereas - as things stand - you feel more like YOU are the enhancement aid to the porn and sex toys??? And further, that, possibly, if it ever came down to a choice, he might choose porn over you or at least feel it were a difficult choice to face?

In other words - this isn't actually a porn issue but an emotions-based one?

xoxo

SM, I'm hijacking.
WHY have you not commented on my crapolla today?
Auds
xoxox

Audsie, I was looking for you...and where do I find you??? In the porn department!! lol

That was kinda heavy. You mean my emotions?

Soulmate,

I had to re read your post a few times. I absolutely do not feel I am the enhancement to the toys or feel threatened if given a choice he would choose porn over me. WE have grown and discussed sexual adventure over the course of 2 years and every toy we have purchased has been together and are kept on my side of the bed and very well cared for and used. Again, I lead back to my previous post, that in mind, why the need to be drawn to porn when he is alone when he/we have such an open and awsom love life?

Julie,

I think you misunderstood my meaning a tad.

Let me start again: is your issue about:

(a) recreational sex - and your being excluded from a proportion of his involvement with that at times when you necessarily have to be absent (i.e. you feel envious that you're missing out and feel he should wait to ensure 50/50 'rights' to it)?

(b) a merely a physical/animal conduit for what is actually a joint expressing of your *heartfelt love* for each other - meaning you feel he's misusing this conduit at such times by debasing it to a merely recreational, solitary, more traditionally male pursuit?

(c) you simply feeling excluded because you feel porn usage should be reserved mainly as a loving-couples-only pasttime irrespective whether his or your motivatory reasons be animal or spiritual in origin?

xoxo

Auds - do you mean Swiss Miss? Assuming Yes, I'll look tomorrow. xoxo

I guess that makes sense.

Soulmate,

I guess you have some valid points. So maybe you can help me understand? Yes, I do wonder why he waits until he is alone some times to view these web sites. He definitly feels they are his "secret" to have to him self and feels I have violated his privacy if (in the past) I have mentioned I am aware ( he walked away from the computer and left the page up), so even though I am still aware, I don't bring it up and some part of me is saying it's just visual stuff, people he will never meet, he just looking and fantacising so let it be, as our relationship and love/ sex/conversations is great. By you saying "necessarily have to be absent" re enforces my opinion he feels these sites are his secret for his "times alone". Again, trying to understand the male psyche.

I would guesstimate - unless you know different - that the stuff he waits to watch after you've gone is far more hardcore than you're yet used to.

In with that: Illicitness and aggressiveness is a huge part of pornographic indulgence for many men, hence why dominatrices are so popular with unusually high achievers like world leaders and high court judges (those children who were driven overly hard by their strict and demanding parents). It's as if these men are somehow subverting the normalcy or orthodoxy of their parental template as a way to rebel against it (i.e. adding sex to it). It's also that it tends to be very wearing for these men to constantly be in charge; therefore, they find relief in being bossed around to a huge degree... Out of control - AND not being a Good Little Boy (or where being such gets PROPER rewards!) - for a change.

This guy clearly wants to be naughty and dirty (rebellious). In other words, he's adding an uncharacteristic twist to one of his means of expressing his inner self (in this case via the channel of the sex act).

If, however, you know for certain that the sites/pursuits he visits alone are just more of the same that he partakes in with you, then I'd say that your presence, your participation in 'his' porn habit is from his point of view 'cleaning up' at least a portion of what was always and should remain dirtier and more rebelliously base. In other words, you put romance into his endeavour to be a subversive little bugger (his perception) and, therefore, he sequesters a morsel of it from that influence of yours using your leaves of absence as his acceptable excuse to do so.

Does that make sense?

YET, despite that (or, indeed, to go against that himself)...He SAID you'd violated his privacy because he's been trained into thinking that's the 'normal/usual/expected' emotional response to that event. Yet if it was so private then why leave it displayed openly??? Error - Does Not Compute.

What computes is that the part of him (which is in everyone) that always wishes to be understood and accepted in totality, warts 'n all, (every human's greatest and most primitive humanistic desire) managed to conquer/override his need for illicitness. That, happily for you, is a sign that he believes he's met his perfect match and that he accordingly could RISK letting you into his psyche's *innermost* sanctum.

But by lifting the rug on what was supposed to remain hidden in order to heighten his experience of it, i.e. by pointing it out, you might have 'ruined' it for him, hence his whinge (which in this case was, in typical male fashion, merely misarticulated...i.e. he chose the wrong explanation for why he was elusively bothered, rather like complaining his tooth hurts when actually it's his big toe :-D).

...unless he reacted that way only because your reaction to seeing it displayed was NEGATIVE and thereby made him feel slightly rejected - rather than accepted which would have been confirmed had you not batted an eyelid thus not commented)???

Whichever. The problem here is that he's basically, tacitly told you that this toy-for-two of his is up for sharing. And then he's gone and played with it alone in another room when you were diverted elsewhere. YOU, conversely, understood that gesture of sharing to mean that it would only ever be shared when you were together, i.e. was now to be a thing jointly owned.

The underlying message here, then, from him, is this: "You can have some licks of my lollipop but *I* get to have most of it cos *I* was the one went to the shop and spent my pocket money on it; I won't stop eating it just because you walk out the door to go home". So it's a male/female difference in the understanding of the concept Sharing: Allowing Some Use Of versus 100% Joint Ownership.

On an even deeper level than that, what a part of him is causing him to uwittingly do is, to use how you feel on that score against you - in a way that's meant to stop you wanting to ever GO home in the first place (!). By displaying his privacy but then bitching because you looked and spoke of it, you got the subliminal message loud and clear, 'Be hereby reminded that, If you go, you end up getting less than your fair share of this sweetie'.

Seeing it?

A sexual issue encompasses many different motives and urges and ideas precisely because it affects us on so many different levels despite that it originates VERY deep in the psyche before 'coming up' through the many, higher psychological levels. So you have this 'cocktail' of motives and desires going on in his mind that get altered and re-shaped and added to on their journey to his conscious decision- and action-taking centre (full consciousness). I'm sure many of them conflict with each other, and many of each are on/off/half-and-half in nature at any given time (no matter its frequency or length).

If he's got something he wants to communicate to you, however - which very clearly he does(!) - then the best thing you can do is ignore his initial method(s)... play dumb wickle girlie (Whoosh! Over me head it goes!! :-DD). People tend to quickly give up futilely hinting and actioning subtly and passively for losing patience and spelling it out for less sophisticated people, don't they, eh? ;-) Let him run out of communication methods that you can adequately comprehend - until all he has left is his mouth, in other words.

It'll take time, though, because the male inner animal sits quite a distance from the conscious loudhailer, meaning he'll have to be forced to think about what he's feeling before he can be capable of putting it into a conscious concept via speech.

(Bleedin' men...tsk!... They can't even keep bloody sex simple, can they, eh? ;-DDD)

xoxo

Soulmate,

Got cha a bit more. Maybe if I give you some more detailed info. this will make sense to you the way it is starting to with me? As I said, we have great communication, and it continues to get better. Always, in any sexual endeavor that might be new, his main concern is #1 acceptance, that I will never use his point of view or somethng said or done in the heat of the moment "against him" ( in an arguement, which we rarely have any way) ( his ex wife was extremely judgemental and he has flat out told me he could never have talked about any of these things with her or she would have lashed out at him verbally and called him wierd, etc) #2 that I don't judge him or view him a "bad" or "wrong" or "wierd/sick" ( his words) if he is thinking outside the box with his sexual thoughts....so as you can see, we do talk quite a bit. I know my approval and acceptance unconditionally are very very important to him. I also know that he has gone on line to "research" different fantacies, sexual ways, to assure him self he wasn't "different" and that other people have different thoughs also, he shared this with me as well. I KNOW what he is looking at.....He has shared with me over and over he is curious to know what it would be like to have a male with us, and he does not want to be viewd by me as being abnormal for that. That being said, you also hit the nail on the head with the look the other way reasoning. In the past, much over a year ago, I was the girl who said "what are you looking at"!!! I am now the girl who knowing he looks, and he knows I know because he knows I have seen a site saved in his faves....and just smiled and walked away and got on with my normal business and conversation ( what do you want for dinner sweetie"? ) I have in that respect literally seen the wash of confusion come over his face when he got no reaction out of me....HE WAS TESTING ME....ya' think? So yea, we have our toys we bought together/money out of his packet but he relinqueshes them to me ensure they are stored securly and he knows I know exactly where they are. So like you said, maybe he sees it as our toys, but "his" and he has every right to take them out when I am not there and look at what he is trying to assure him self is something he is not alone in and pleasure him self when I am not there.

So, go back to what you said, is his openness and willingness to share this with me yet expect me to understand with out judgement he is acting alone from time to time as being his perfect match? I know we are, I could not imagin being as open and honest and liberated and trusting with any one else ever again in my life. AND I know it has taken ALOT for him to open nup about these things over the past year or so. I know that the times we have gone to the store and purchased something, each time, if it is going to introduce something completely new or a different twist, he has contemplated it for a while and he will take me to what he wants and asks over and over if I am "okay" with it? When he gets upset, the rims of his eyes get red, and this is the look of fear he has waiting to see that I say I am okay with it, and he knows he won't be judged then he sighs a sigh of relief and then it's all okay and we move on. Every time we buy a new toy, it's like his sexual energy goes sky high for a bit, then he comes back down and then we move onto the next new adventure. So it is my guess, at least I hope that because he knows I am okay with these things as we experiment and talk together, he gets turned on even when I am not around and pulls up the web site and sometimes gets a toy and goes for it. Does any of this make sense or sound reasonable?

Julie,

Think of it like this, Imagine you leave this site up accidentally and he reads what you post here, would that be awkward? If he were to peek over your sholder while you were posting here or on a similar site, would you be comfortable with that?

I can never understand why people refuse understand that we all have our sanctum sanctorum, our most private place/thoughts etc. that we may or may not ever share with even those who are closest to us.

Some men watch porn, most men are astute enough to realize that most women disapprove of this on some level, and we have been trained to be ashamed of being a consumer of pornography. So in order to keep the opinion of our women of us as high as possible, we hide the porn from the women in our lives lest we meet with their disapproval. Even those open minded women are not going to be ok with certain types of "hardcore" porn, whichever particular kink may be preferred by the individual in question.

I read in a Cosmo article years ago that the most common fantasy women have is to be with two men at the same time (simultaneous penetration) this came as a shock to me as I had never heard a woman confess this. I asked other men at the time if they had ever had their women confess to any such fantasy, I got blank stares. Of course this is only anecdotal, but it would seem that women keep things to themselves as well.

Why not just let your man have his porn without having to worry that he will be judged for it?

Hmm,
The thing about the Juliejulie's issue is that her guy seems pretty intent on letting her into his fantasy world, his "sanctum sanctorum" to the point of even discussing ways to make his fantasies a reality.

This is where I would get pretty freaked out. Because even if I think about certain things (threesomes of either gender, etc.) it does *not* mean that I share this with my partner and actually think about acting these things out. They're fleeting thoughts I have while I'm wanking off; nothing more.

I never understand why people want to push fantasy out into the open; why they're not content to let it be the nice little mental vacation its designed to be. If you're happy with your sex life, why push it? Why do we always need to find the next new thrill, push that envelope a little more?

Okay, well, if he were to walk in and look over my shoulder I would not be uncomfortable. I think there is a true difference between catching some one jerking off to porn -vs- asking advice right??? I think he would be happy I am searching for answers from other educated people in order to understand something with out having to ask him questions about it which may or may not cause problems. As I said in last post to soulmate, a year ago I was the girl who openly questioned it. I now do not show any emotion one way or the other about it IF it crosses our paths, but just go on about my business. This does not mean I don't still have the itch to know what this is all about in the male psyche.

Yes, we are open enough to discuss about anything, but as barnowl said, these are just fantacies. No one is looking to make anything a reality. It's just that the fantacies are vocalized in the heat of the moment -vs- keeping private thoughts. He encourages me to do the same.

So, maybe this is all going in circles. It goes back to why guys need porn and to please them self's to it alone/when their partners are not around? Soulmate hit on a lot of key points, as well as puffyfish did. I could understand that some of this stuff is "out there" and viewing it in private to shield the partner from such stuff or not wanting to be dissaproved of I am sure. I am sure this is why it made him uncomfortable a year ago when I brought it up defensively. He seems to be content with the fact he knows I know and just don't bring it up. I am sure it makes it easier for him to talk openly with me as well and trust he won't be judged. Maybe it just boils down to the is a "stigma" connected to porn and that is always there on the mind no matter what?

Eyups,

Scuse the delay - been ultra-busy (AND had a tummy bug...won't go into detail (bleugh)).

Don't have time right now to answer your previous mail, Julie (will try tomorrow), but suffice it to say this: Men are not comfortable not having an answer and/or not being able to articulate a very deeply subconscious emotion to the point where it can be formed into an explanation. They're conditioned into believing they have to always have the answers, to be in control over everything in their environment. That's a lot to live up to.

The trouble is, they're then so busy looking outwards that they don't have time to introspect. We can because our brains are designed to keep one eye on this and another on that and the third on the kids... Multitask, they're more designed for total single entitied concentration (although they're getting better as we further evolve). If they're unsure, they'd rather stay schtum. And they'd rather you didn't keep asking them, 'Well....?' They either say nothing, or try to distract you off the subject, or pretend to be busy (or Saved By The Bell syndrome), or try to shut you up with things like, '[comedy sigh] Don't start. or 'I can't talk about this right now, I feel ill.' Some of them would even prefer to start an argument than be shown up as Not Knowing.

It's probably more the stigma attached to him wanting to compartmentalise (they may single-track but they have many tracks that take it in turns to be attended to by his mind) - to keep a part of himself separate from you (as well as keeping a portion of it dirtier/illicit). But that conflicts with his great desire to finally have a partner see his warts as well as his beauty spots.

xoxo

Thanks. Look forward to hearing from you.

Sorry for the delay (busy and now ill).

I hear worry and uncertainty on your part regarding this 'limitless' new pursuit:

He has shared with me over and over he is curious to know what it would be like to have a male with us, and he does not want to be viewd by me as being abnormal for that.

I'm sure he doesn't. If curiosity is the issue rather than acting it out. So neither do you want to be called abnormal by HIS standards should your preferrence NOT be introducing a third party into what you deem an act for two that stems from the romantic/unification part of desire. If an acts requires two then it's automatically a democratic union with 50/50 say. His version of weird or plain unacceptable, doesn't trump yours.

This is the trouble with pleasurable sensation, porn especially. You have to know where/when to stop. Desensitisation calls for a period of abstinence to make the heart grow fonder of the familiar and acceptable attainment level, not for an increased dosage; that way lies addiction then compulsion.

That being said, you also hit the nail on the head with the look the other way reasoning. In the past, much over a year ago, I was the girl who said "what are you looking at"!!! I am now the girl who knowing he looks, and he knows I know because he knows I have seen a site saved in his faves....and just smiled and walked away and got on with my normal business and conversation ( what do you want for dinner sweetie"? )

My question is: if this pursuit - or the part of it that's jointly partaken of - is supposedly so acceptable to him then why isn't examining and discussing it above the table??? Again, we have Illicitness at the root. But, likewise, we have non-secrecy via sharing. Where is the dividing line? Does he even know?? You shouldn't have to bend to his rules when they're undefined. That's tantamount to walking on eggshells - a part and parcel of Abuse.

If he wishes part of it to remain illicit then - his wish, his remedial action. I.e. he can KEEP it "secret", which means not flaunting it. Talk about "See this elephant I've placed in the middle of the room, don't you dare point it out". Can't have it both ways, pal (him). Don't want it pointed out, don't put it there, when people are programmed to involuntarily point it out.

These boundaries need defining. I think you already realise that but not fully enough for articulatation purposes. Hopefully, I've just done it for you?

I have in that respect literally seen the wash of confusion come over his face when he got no reaction out of me....HE WAS TESTING ME....ya' think?

Yep. That's the non-verbal way of exploring boundaries, you see. Men don't do words, they do actions - like button-pushing. If it lights up, there's the inarguable answer. Words are cheap, they can be wrong or representational of only temporary emotional states. Actions, to all intents, cannot.

So yea, we have our toys we bought together/money out of his packet

And thereby is defined bottom-line Ownership (his). Suggest YOU buy the next lot (Democracy, remember?).

but he relinqueshes them to me ensure they are stored securly

Beg pardon??? Is he regularly burgled, then??? Or does his mother tidy/clean his house and root through his possessions as a matter of routine??? Or does he have some sleep disorder that means he ends up unconsciously chewing them ragged in the middle of the night????

Explain, por favor?

and he knows I know exactly where they are.

...or are you his porn dietician???

So like you said, maybe he sees it as our toys, but "his" and he has every right to take them out when I am not there and look at what he is trying to assure him self is something he is not alone in and pleasure him self when I am not there.

Oh, I see - you get to decide where in *his* house they are stored (?).

In other words, he neither wants them to be TOO base yet nor too clean. Yep - boundary identification and definition is required. Particularly as his currently confused measures are lookin ridiculously convoluted, I'm sure you'll agree.

So, go back to what you said, is his openness and willingness to share this with me yet expect me to understand with out judgement he is acting alone from time to time as being his perfect match?

Yes. But what IS his definition of Perfect??? And is that perfection so single-faceted? What else has he said or indicated makes you so desirable in his eyes?

I know we are, I could not imagin being as open and honest and liberated and trusting with any one else ever again in my life. AND I know it has taken ALOT for him to open nup about these things over the past year or so.

What's it taken you in regards to becoming accustomed with this up-until-then alien sexual enhancement pursuit? ...if you would even call it that since I note you said you personally DON'T need them as such. What DO you need them for? A badge of VIP membership to his club???

I know that the times we have gone to the store and purchased something, each time, if it is going to introduce something completely new or a different twist, he has contemplated it for a while and he will take me to what he wants and asks over and over if I am "okay" with it?

Why does he have to ask you over and over? Does he sense reluctance on your part via your first 'Yes'? ARE you reluctant sometimes, depending upon what the item is?

Is your mind then made up for you by his obvious insistence for your fuller mental commitment??? Or does it merely allow you greater contemplation and appraisal time re the object's qualities? Which?

When he gets upset, the rims of his eyes get red, and this is the look of fear he has waiting to see that I say I am okay with it, and he knows he won't be judged then he sighs a sigh of relief and then it's all okay and we move on.

Ah-HAH. He obviously feels his ex complained and criticised ALL the time and on highly personal issues and traits of his. Then you come along and seemingly contradict her. But it's not enough contradiction when her attempts to make him feel unworthy, semi-worked. 'I feel like I'm sh*t' requires many more compliments and praises to get to 'I'm Just Okay' than does someone who's starting from that latter point. Seemingly, there are many, many criticisms to be cancelled out before he'll believe you (thus himself). So he starts to increase his "misbehaviour".... "Do you still love me when I do this?.... What about when I do even THIS?.... Oh, yeah??? Well, what about *THIS*?!..."

Is that what we're talking about here?

Every time we buy a new toy, it's like his sexual energy goes sky high for a bit,

Acceptance, albeit what he deems temporary only, of his inner self by A N Other whom he himself rates, clearly turns him on.

then he comes back down and then we move onto the next new adventure.

Yep. Aforementioned Desensitisation.

So it is my guess, at least I hope that because he knows I am okay with these things as we experiment and talk together, he gets turned on even when I am not around and pulls up the web site and sometimes gets a toy and goes for it. Does any of this make sense or sound reasonable?

Yes. And now I know what's going on. There are two separate issues here. He's testing your love and acceptance to the hilt. And he's also testing his self-love and -acceptance to the hilt, at other times.

He's clearly the type who finds being in touch with his deepest layers more self-educational than anything else (heart lives in his trousers). Hence this is his chosen self-discovery medium.

The bottom-line question is 'Who am I... and am I *truly* loveable for who I am irrespective of what I do?'

He's using a PART of you as his catharciser in that pursuit. But then, I suspect you are, too. But I think you're in touch with yourself more than he.

(I just *knew* this was an emotional issue.)

What do you think?

xoxo

SM- busy and ILL. Not acceptable.
Mwah!!! Can I get you some tea???
Audsie
xoxox... Aaawh!

Hey, everyone, Soulmate is SICK for just a short while-- if you send her smooches and vicariously stroke her hair.

P.S. she must look like sh!t right NOW... LMAO

Feel better SM

Ta, missusesess..ss.

Yes, I do look like sh*t (but not like Duffnut's original pale poonuts). My nasal passage hurts like b*ggery, I can't pronounce my 'n's and 'm's and 'p's, my eyes are very hot and watery, my back aches, and I've gorraneadach.

if you send her smooches and vicariously stroke her hair.

DON'T LISTEN TO HER, EVERYONE! Stroke my hair when you have tits and your name isn't Si and see my face look like a toddler licking a lemon for the very first time!!! ;-ppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp

Who wants a swing on my eyebags? ...Anyone??? (whist stocks last) (tsk, can't even spell whilst). xoxo

And I'm very grumpy :-p albeit happily lurved up underneath that. :-) ...but the telly is sh*t tonight.

Go on, then - entertain me? :-)

I DON'T CARE, SM.
i WUB YOU.. YOU CAN SH!T ON MY PARADE ANYTIME.

PLEASE FEEL BETTER. GET OFF THESE FORUMS... for a while.
I (think!) I understand how you feel.
Just have some TEA.

NOBODY expects YOU TO BE WONDERWOMAN...

LOVE,
Auds
xoxox

SM...I hope you feel better soon too honey!!

I am going to give you a BIG cyber *HUG* right now because I know how much you will appreciate and love all that affection and attention...

While I am at...here is {smoooch} on your cheek...:) wink!

Wub you too...::))))

Feel better!

Why I oudda...I'll see your wub, Snuff, and raise you a smash in the gob ;-p

Auds - as for you: rrrrrright - you asked ferit!!! ;-p

What parade would that be? Teddy Bears' Picnic? Okey-dokes, then... ("la-la-la...me-me-meeeeee....")

"If you go down to the woods today
You're sure of a big surprise
If you go down to the woods today
You'd better go in disguise

For every mare that ever there was
Will tremble there for certain, because
Today's the day that Audrey employs her Kiss...-Nick.

Kiss-Nick time for Audrey there,
The little Audrey there is having a lovely time today.
Watch her "gay-ly" show her wares
And see her snog like it's a hol-iday.
See her "gay-ly" dance about,
She loves to 'pray' and shout
And never have any caaaares.
At six-o'-clock the mummies (not daddies)
Get dragged home to her bed
Because their pro...tests-got them no-wheeeeere.

Beeeee.....neath the trees, where nobody sees
She'll hide then pounce, ignoring their pleas -
Today's the day that Aud-er-ey has her kiss...-nick."

Har-de-har-har, thad'll learn ya ;-D xoxo

PS: Snot malaria or nuffin, just a head, nose and throat full of putrid and slimey greenies. (Still want that smooch?)

Oopth, thowee Juliex2. But, it's actually YOUR fault - you do insist on going home, see ;-DDD (Can someone order a bigger naughty chair, please?). xoxo

STILL WANT THAT SMOOCH:)))

Beg pardon??? Is he regularly burgled, then??? Or does his mother tidy/clean his house and root through his possessions as a matter of routine??? Or does he have some sleep disorder that means he ends up unconsciously chewing them ragged in the middle of the night????

Explain, por favor?

Okay>>>>>got me laughing out loud on this one!!!!!! You clearly saw some humor in this :-)

Yes. And now I know what's going on. There are two separate issues here. He's testing your love and acceptance to the hilt. And he's also testing his self-love and -acceptance to the hilt, at other times.

>>>>and yes, on this I agree. I can see that now. what started as my question regarding trying to understand the male psyche does for us as a couple come to this. I see the bigger picture. In his life, in his relationships, father, wife, growing up, he has shared with me the feeling of not being accepted. He does have challenges he deals with every day and has shared those challenges with me. (A.D.D.) I guess in that we are persuing this as a long term relationship ( marriage one day), he is doing what you said, testing to the hilt. The other day he made a comment that he was "waiting to see if any thing bad was going to happen" ( in a conversation about the future) After contemplating this a few days, I said to my self "what!?! what about being thankful for all the good and love and just accepting that"??? whay are we waiting for "something bad) to happen? hense.....your theory of testing to the hilt and "pushing buttons" He keeps pushing buttons then holds his breath anticipating a "bad" thing to happen. When it doesn't, or he gets no reaction, again, I see this combination look of confusion "I just said something/did something out of the ordinary, why aren't you getting mad, yelling, judging me"?? then relief "oh, I guess it's okay"?

Things are not confusing, touchy, iffy on this subject as when i first posted, as with your help and the advice of all, I am working through my understanding, where I stand, understanding him/us, life. What's worth being concerned with and what isn't, etc.

What do you think?

Beg pardon??? Is he regularly burgled, then??? Or does his mother tidy/clean his house and root through his possessions as a matter of routine??? Or does he have some sleep disorder that means he ends up unconsciously chewing them ragged in the middle of the night????

Explain, por favor?

Okay>>>>>got me laughing out loud on this one!!!!!! You clearly saw some humor in this :-)

Yes. And now I know what's going on. There are two separate issues here. He's testing your love and acceptance to the hilt. And he's also testing his self-love and -acceptance to the hilt, at other times.

>>>>and yes, on this I agree. I can see that now. what started as my question regarding trying to understand the male psyche does for us as a couple come to this. I see the bigger picture. In his life, in his relationships, father, wife, growing up, he has shared with me the feeling of not being accepted. He does have challenges he deals with every day and has shared those challenges with me. (A.D.D.) I guess in that we are persuing this as a long term relationship ( marriage one day), he is doing what you said, testing to the hilt. The other day he made a comment that he was "waiting to see if any thing bad was going to happen" ( in a conversation about the future) After contemplating this a few days, I said to my self "what!?! what about being thankful for all the good and love and just accepting that"??? whay are we waiting for "something bad) to happen? hense.....your theory of testing to the hilt and "pushing buttons" He keeps pushing buttons then holds his breath anticipating a "bad" thing to happen. When it doesn't, or he gets no reaction, again, I see this combination look of confusion "I just said something/did something out of the ordinary, why aren't you getting mad, yelling, judging me"?? then relief "oh, I guess it's okay"?

Things are not confusing, touchy, iffy on this subject as when i first posted, as with your help and the advice of all, I am working through my understanding, where I stand, understanding him/us, life. What's worth being concerned with and what isn't, etc.

What do you think?

(Want one copy of my reply or two? ;-DDDD I get it now: Your boardname wasn't really supposed to be JulieJulie at all, was it. You've simply got Parkinson's Disease :-D).

ADD. I get it. EVERYTHING is short lived. Including the lasting effects of any reassurances.

and yes, on this I agree. I can see that now. what started as my question regarding trying to understand the male psyche does for us as a couple come to this. I see the bigger picture. In his life, in his relationships, father, wife, growing up, he has shared with me the feeling of not being accepted. He does have challenges he deals with every day and has shared those challenges with me. (A.D.D.) I guess in that we are persuing this as a long term relationship ( marriage one day), he is doing what you said, testing to the hilt. The other day he made a comment that he was "waiting to see if any thing bad was going to happen" ( in a conversation about the future)

What kind of pessimistic attitude is THAT to be living your life by? Ridiculous. Does he not know about negative self-fulfilling phrophesy? Or is he still DefCon-ed from his marital Splat?

After contemplating this a few days, I said to my self "what!?! what about being thankful for all the good and love and just accepting that"??? whay are we waiting for "something bad) to happen? hense.....your theory of testing to the hilt and "pushing buttons" He keeps pushing buttons then holds his breath anticipating a "bad" thing to happen.

Understandable but not exactly conducive to happiness as ...Where does the testing and hoop-holding end???

When it doesn't, or he gets no reaction, again, I see this combination look of confusion "I just said something/did something out of the ordinary, why aren't you getting mad, yelling, judging me"?? then relief "oh, I guess it's okay"?

So you're clearly an over-nurturing type. I wouldn't play doctor if I were you. You shouldn't have to be bending to his level, you should be behaving like a normal, healthy individual so that he CAN feel where he is currently inadequate and is thereby compelled to fix whichever areas of himself, accordingly. You should simply set the standard according to you following more normal templates including your own. He's hardly going to better himself if everyone around him lowers themselves to HIS level, is he. If EVERYONE acts infected then, Where's the disease/WHAT disease??

Things are not confusing, touchy, iffy on this subject as when i first posted, as with your help and the advice of all, I am working through my understanding, where I stand, understanding him/us, life. What's worth being concerned with and what isn't, etc. What do you think?

I think you've gotten with an extreme/alternative type of character in order to be forced to finally introspect and get to know your inner self after having been too busy dealing with all the life stuff on the surface to have stopped and reflected on the meaning of life/relationships and your place in that there arena. And I think you've done that because you have trouble adapting gradually, and/or lack requisite self-motivation to start that process, hence jumping into the deep end on the first available fleeting impulse, as it were.

For example, Why would you have spent years and years being denied a vital chunk of romantic relations, not to mention humanistic need, namely sex, and tolerating that? Is this tantamount to the kid who has deprived herself of sweets nigh-on phobically following some particularly unpleasant dental procedure, who then gets over that fear with the passing years, only to then find that she's being prevented from finally visiting a sweet shop by a new force other than herself (husband/incarceration via Der Commitment)... and with the restrainer then being removed, finding herself going totally OTT and gorging herself silly in the process - including trying sweets that never even used to mentally appeal to her in the past???

(Try saying THAT lot after 10 pints! ;-D)

xoxo

Your right. As we here talk, and as time goes by, I see these different things you mention. In these past weeks, I have definitly said to my self I am getting exhausted bending. And your right, I have been for the past year caught up in horrible life challenge and needing this to be stable has been important. As my life stabalizes, I find my self less and less willing to bend.

I have to re read your posts some times before they sink in, but they do. Right now I have a sick puppy ( 6 year old little guy who's a bit under the weather) he is my priority.

"He does have challenges he deals with every day and has shared those challenges with me. (A.D.D.) I guess in that we are persuing this as a long term relationship ( marriage one day), he is doing what you said, testing to the hilt. The other day he made a comment that he was "waiting to see if any thing bad was going to happen" ( in a conversation about the future) After contemplating this a few days, I said to my self "what!?! what about being thankful for all the good and love and just accepting that"??? whay are we waiting for "something bad) to happen? hense.....your theory of testing to the hilt and "pushing buttons" He keeps pushing buttons then holds his breath anticipating a "bad" thing to happen. When it doesn't, or he gets no reaction, again, I see this combination look of confusion "I just said something/did something out of the ordinary, why aren't you getting mad, yelling, judging me"?? then relief "oh, I guess it's okay"?"

"He spoke of marriage with in 6 months of our relationship, then suddenly back peddled. The "I don't really know what I want" thing. "I want you and am 100% committed to you" BUT.....I don't know what I want."

SM, as I was reading this I almost wondered if DoubleJ is dating DJ Man. I can almost feel what she's feeling....

who's DJ man?