Is it ever OK to just share your feelings and ask direct questions?
Sun Nov 15 2009 - 09:24 am
I was married for 13 years to a man who said out loud every passing thought that came to his mind. EVERYTHING. I got divorced about 2 years ago, and now I'm dating a quiet, reserved person. I have to GUESS what he's thinking--or try to go by the clues in how he acts-- and I'm NOT good at this.
He's 48 and never been married, and while he does have very good manners, and treats me very well, he seems shy and very, very, overly cautious. We have similar religious beliefs that should, technically, encourage a man to be respectful and not be all over a girl he's dating (although that has not stopped other similarly religious men in the past, I must say).
At the end of date #3, which had went great, I asked him if he wanted to continue dating, because SINCE HE HAD NOT TRIED TO EVEN HOLD MY HAND, I was not sure if he wanted to just be friends or what. (I did tell him that either way was fine-- I just wanted to know.) He seemed fine with that conversation, and we laughed about it a little, and on date #4, he asked to hold my hand and I FINALLY got a kiss goodnight.
That was a while ago. Last night was date #11. He told me he had a wonderful night. However, we're still at the holding-hands-and-a-couple-of-goodnight-kisses phase. I did have a chance to put my arms around him and lean on him a bit while we waiting in this huge line to get tickets, and he seemed receptive to that, but he didn't try anything more on his own. In the past few weeks, I've put the cup holder UP at the movie theater so I can sit closer and lean my head on his shoulder, and sometimes if we've had the goodnight kiss and then talked for a few minutes more, I ask for another kiss. He seems happy about that and is super-sweet, but doesn't try anything on his own. How do you act encouraging without also appearing to be Courtney Love? I've done everything but flash my boobs at him. :(
At this point, I feel like an arm around my shoulder at the movies or more kisses throughout our dates would not be out of line. I am a very affectionate person, but I have my dignity-- I don't want to be "all over" this guy, and I don't want to have to ask for more affection. The man should do the pursuing, right? But on the other hand, sometimes if you don't ask, you don't get. I am not asking for the world here. I'm not asking for an engagement ring or to "know where this relationship is headed".
And in the end, there is this: I get the impression that he is shy and/or more reserved than I am, but I am well aware that there's a possibility that it might be that he just doesn't like me that much. :(
Could someone just CHANGE THE WORLD FOR ME and make it OK for me to say "We've been dating for 2 months-- would you like to keep dating? And if yes, could we be more affectionate?" That seemed to work OK last time. I do like him a lot. I'd like for us to continue dating and get to know each other better, but I won't die if things don't work out.
I know it's early on, too-- two months isn't a great length of time. Should I just go with the flow and shut up?
Sun Nov 15 2009 - 06:46 pm
#2
Oh, we've been alone in my apartment several times-- his possibly being anti-PDA may be something to consider, because 99% of the kissing has been done in my apartment (though he initiates hand-holding in public). I know some of his relationship history, but not the "what went wrong" stories-- it's been difficult for me to figure out how to bring that subject up without implying something like, "So, how did you screw up your previous relationships? Or are you blaming the girl?"
This will sound stupid, but what would indicate that a relationship is progressing emotionally and mentally? We talk a LOT-- talk about work, talk about hobbies, movies, bands, friends, news. We have a lot of common interests and beliefs and similar senses of humor. We have not had a big old heart-to-heart about our deep dark secrets and disappointments in love or whatever. Again, I am not sure how to approach this with Mr. Shy. I do feel we should be talking more about ourselves... any ideas for how to broach this with him?
HOWEVER, I've been reading other girls' stories on the forum this afternoon and feel like a big JERK for whining about this, now. The person I'm dating is EXTREMELY slow-moving, but considerate and kind to me. I enjoy spending time with him. I'm going to go with the flow, I think.
Mon Nov 16 2009 - 08:40 pm
#3
Sounds good, bunny. He may just be against PDA - I am the same way - I am generally OK with handholding in public, but at times, even kissing in public is too much for me. It seems that your relationship is on track if you're connecting/talking a lot with him. I am sure the deep dark relationship secrets will reveal themselves in time.
Tue Nov 17 2009 - 12:45 pm
#4
It is good to know there are some gentlemen left
Tue Nov 17 2009 - 08:21 pm
#5
I say, yes. Ask for what you want. I wish I would have done that in the past. He might actually be relieved that you brought it up and up the affection. Or he might tell you, "I'm not a touchy feely person." Then you can decide if you can deal with that or not. It's so much easier when you just come out with it. He might feel that he has to guess what you need if you don't articulate it to him. And I doubt that he would be on 11 dates with you if he didn't see it going somewhere. And if he were only after one thing, he probaby would have tried for it already.
I went out on several dates with a guy who wouldn't so much as kiss me. Then one night about 3.5 weeks into our dating, he got drunk and tried to pressure me into having sex with him. It was the weirdest thing. I wish on one of those prior dates, I would have asked him, "Do you feel uncomfortable with kissing me?" Boy would that have saved a lot of trouble!
Wed Nov 18 2009 - 01:14 am
#6
Wow! I'm so used to guys pressuring me for sex after date 1... that it's nice to know that there are some shy guys out there. Some respectful guys. I hope it works out.
I dated a guy who wasn't into PDA's, not even hand holding.. but I think it is important to talk to him about why things are going so slow, if it bothers you so much. I think communication is KEY in any relationship....
And how to tell that things are progressing mentally/emotionally... Well emotionally, you guys would be talking about yourselves more... You'd know more about each other, like your childhoods and a little bit more about past relationships... Mentally? Uhm.... I think you have that down pat, you do talk a lot and seem to have a lot in common... It just seems the emotional part is a little stunted. Which isn't too bad, the emotional part of relationships generally happen REALLY FAST for me. I will talk about anything and everything with a guy I just met. I feel no shame and really want a person to know me. Sometimes that isn't so healthy.
Wed Nov 18 2009 - 10:12 am
#7
Guys often say they like direct communication. They are not mind readers and if you do not tell them your needs they won' know.
Direct communication gets a bad rap when handled badly, like when you make him feel pressured or defensive. But asserting your own needs is a good thing
Wed Nov 18 2009 - 12:50 pm
#8
Bassbunny,
There are models describing the stages in a relationship which may apply to your situation. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knapp%27s_Relational_Development_Model. (I know, wiki is not always reliable, but this gives a good breakdown..) The time periods for these different stages differ with everyone. And two people in a relationship could move through these stages at different rates. Sometimes it is comforting to know that this is a completely normal thing.
The Knapp model talks about an experimentation or probing stage where you gather information about commonalities. You say,
"We talk a LOT-- talk about work, talk about hobbies, movies, bands, friends, news. We have a lot of common interests and beliefs and similar senses of humor."
This type of converstion is typical in the "experimentation" stage. It is not until the "intensifying" and more so in the "integration" stage of the relationship that opening your heart and soul and more meaningful conversations happen. I think you are just experiencing movement (for yourself, don't know about him) into that intensifying stage.
Sounds like you are wanting to "test the waters" and determine the intensity of a relationship. That is what you are asking....if it is ever ok for a woman to "test the waters." You are in a normal stage for you. He may not have crossed over to that stage yet. It sounds like your bf is moving slower than you and much slower than the normal man. It is said that the "honeymoon" stage of a relationship can last anywhere from a couple months to a couple years. There is a huge time span depending upon the person.
I think all women test the waters. The difference is in the method. Your guy seems a little shy and talking gently to him about this might be beneficial. Bring up the fact that you are happy and love seeing him. And that he is refreshingly different than anyone else you've ever dated. And you've noticed that he is much more reserved than the others. And that is fine, you are having a great time with him. You accept that that is the way he is and you are ok with that. But you are curious! Can he tell you why? If not, that is fine with you, but you are interested. Then let him to decide what he will do and don't probe him further.
Try some different methods of "testing his waters" and find one he is comfortable with. Then, enjoy your dates and what he is able to give you. Let him move at his own pace. You will find out the deep dark secrets when he is ready to go there. My bf's a little clamshelly too, but I've been able to get his feelings on a lot of different subjects by talking about them in a detached way...not relating them to "our" situation, but instead talking about other people's problems. The threads on this board make great topics for discussion. That might also work for you.
Maybe that is why he has never been married? Other girls got frustrated with him and his movement from one stage to another. This will be a challenge, to find a way to open him up without chasing him off. If you can do that, and my assumption above is correct, that will make you different from the others - and that is a good thing. But first you need to decide if what you have is good enough to accept that challenge. From what you tell us above, it is. You seem happy. But that is for you to decide.
Keep us updated on your successes with this guy! Sounds like a great (and different) experience than most women here are having. That might be a good thing.
SZ
Wed Nov 18 2009 - 12:46 pm
#9
In other words timing is everything. Good post SZ
Wed Nov 18 2009 - 12:54 pm
#10
Yep. And different people have their own timing.
Thetababe is so much more concise than I am! I have to write it oooouuuuut to get it straight in my head sometimes. : - ))
Thu Nov 19 2009 - 09:42 pm
#11
Thanks SO much, everybody-- I knew y'all would be helpful! Special thanks to szstudio52-- I had no idea that relationship model thing existed, and it was VERY interesting.
Do you know what his history is? Has he had problems with physical intimacy in the past? Is the relationship progressing in other ways (emotionally / mentally)? Perhaps, he's still trying to get to know you, although I agree...2 months is a long time. If I were you, I would not ask him what's going on - I'd just go with the flow - unless you are prepared to hear the worst. Perhaps he's not into PDA but reserves his affections for when it's more private (I am like that). I would also try to get him to make a move by holding his hand for a few minutes and then letting it go to see if he then makes a move to continue holding. Or invite him to your place for a movie and get a blanket and put it over the both of you, sit close to him but don't do anything and see if he tries anything. Or try a physical activity that involves some touching and see how he does (go rock climbing or play golf and pretend that you need help with your swing). Heeeheee. :)