Dear mr. unsocial
I want to write you an honest letter about how I feel about you. No more me trying to be tough. I am in love with you. I don’t want to be without you for another day. I can, if I have to, but I don’t want to. I miss you so much and have never felt so lonely. Not even when my first boyfriend broke up with me. No, I don’t think just giving up on the relationship was for the best, I was trying to be tough lol. But I don’t feel so tough anymore, I want to be open with you. I cannot change things, if I quite school, I would be unhappy, because I don’t want to work at McDonalds for the rest of my life. I know going back to the way things were won’t work out. So what I’m asking you is to move here.
I wouldn’t ask you that if you are happy in 100 Mile House and want to stay there for the rest of your life. Then I would just suck it up and move on. But I know you want to change, meet new people, and get away from 100 Mile House. I’ll be able to be there so much more for you. I want to be there for you! I’m not asking you to quite your job, but do what you wanted to do 7 months ago, for a girl you hardly knew. Live here for 4 days and in 100 Mile House for 3 days.

This is not a 'whole mountain' but part of a mountain, little steps (learned this psychological trick from someone, same with training animals, little steps). this way i'm sticking with my bounderies, he's still the one that has to change. but at the same time i'm telling him that I want to be with him.

Crazy,

I have gone through the exact same thoughts. I even talked to other men and they wonder why I don't contact my ex and talk things through.

My issue arose when I quit working full time, went back to school and caused challenges with potential cohabitational arrangements.

You are right.

It is difficult to know what to do. I think some of the advice in the books are good. I think using too much of that advice causes confusion and inhibits us from expressing our true feelings appropriately, thus causing issues (perhaps).

I am on day 50 NC. Still totally floored that the man that pursued me so relentlessly, supposedly loved me, who was so dependable for almost 2 years, has made no attempt to contact me. I still cannot believe this has happened, even now.

I have had plenty of time to reflect about him and myself. I have been thinking of writing something that I will not rush through. Maybe I will eventually send a letter, maybe not.

Anyway......despite what you think, or I think, our relationships are broken for a reason.

I remind myself this time is for me. To get centered again. Think clearly as to what I want. That is really the point of NC.

What we do with the time is a personal decision (contact? no contact?). My guy was a sensitive type. However, he is also a determined man that pursues what he wants. So, I have chosen not to contact, even though I wonder if the sensitive part of his personality is scared of rejection.

For now, for me, I believe that NC is important.

lol, my guy is sensitive too. and doesn't always pursue. and we can turn the tables too, he can think the same thing, 'why has she not contacted me?'

he said the first few months, he wasn't even sure i liked him. i don't know if i'm gonna do it yet. maybe it is for the best. he's 28 and i'm 20. he says there is so much more out there for me. he just wants to settle down. but i want that too (THATS why my first bf left me :s). lots of ppl in my class are married. he's just gotten fustrated with living so far away.

anyway, i'm sleeping over it for a whole week. i made a promise to myself not to send it for a whole week.

but still, what do i have to lose. i lost him already, so the letter might get him to move mountains for me. who knows. if not, then i know he won't. there will be no 'what ifs'

you're right though, the relationship is broken for a reason. the sex wasn't great, he loves laying on the beach suntanning and shopping, whereas i hate both. yet we both love country music, dancing, 4x4ing, horsebackriding, quatting, and fishing, so we do have quite a few things in common lol.

I'll think more. not sending it yet lol

Horsecrazy,

If you want him to will have to accept him the way he is. Remember you will not be able to change anything about him.
Can you accept that?

That is the question either you want him or you dont.

If you do then write him the letter but be careful you could end up back on here if you dont accept him the way he is and it will have just been wasted time for you but maybe you will feel clearer in moving on.

Good luck.

Horsecrazy,

I too wish you luck, in the end you have to do what is right for you. I also went through all of those emotions and that thought process. I did as you are going to do, I wrote the most heart felt letter of a lifetime. I hope it goes better for you than it did for me. It backfired in my case. I regret the day I ever sent it. I am not trying to rain on your parade, but I too kept a lot inside and opened up too late. I hope it works for you, but be prepared for anything. I think your guy needs time to work on himself, make new friends, learn to let others in. When a person goes on a journey like this, often it is a journey best taken alone. Have you ever thought about do you love him enough to be selfless and let him go? Just a thought. YOur guy has been through a lot. He has healing to do as well. He has to work on himself, he is not whole at the moment and may not be able to love you in a healthy way yet. Timing is everything. We never know what the future holds. If it does not work for you now, somewhere down the road when he has grown and healed your paths may cross again.

I do accept him the way he is. i've never tried to change him except for him moving closer, which he wanted to do anyway.

I think your guy needs time to work on himself, make new friends, learn to let others in. When a person goes on a journey like this, often it is a journey best taken alone

that's the reason i decided to wait a week. that's the thing i'm not totally sure about. he was lonely, decided to have a gf to open up to, to change, because he wanted to do something different. he said 'i don't need friends, i have horsecrazy to go fishing with and hang out with'. i wasn't able to be there enough, and now he's decided he needs friends, lots of them. and he decided he can't have a gf in the process because he can't just go up to strange girls and guys (especially girls) when he has a gf. i don't really care though, if he wants to make friends he can. i want him to! lol

well, i can either get a yes or no answer. the no answer wouldn't hurt too bad i figure. and if it hurts more it's usually easier to get over lol. and if he says 'yes, i'll move' then i think we can do it... but like i said, i'll think more lol

hey robin, how did it backfire for you? did he agree and then said no later, or did he just say no right away?

I think I am having difficulty in making contact because that would open the wound for me if I was disregarded. I am still too vulnerable.

I hope No Show is miserable. Isn't that terrible?

The good thing is, I have lost just about all the weight I gained while dating him. I cooked man food, we drank, we ate (not so healthy food) and I plumped up 15 lbs. Now I am down 11-12 lbs which is sigmificant on my small frame.

When he sees me (if he sees me), He is going to think "Wow" she looks good. By then I may not care for him the same way anymore.

No, Sophie, that it isn't terrible to hope that No Show is miserable.
To tell you the truth, swiss miss is so private that when he broke my heart I came to this public forum and I wanted to expose all that secrecy he has.

I never ever wanted to contact the "wife". I never spoke badly about him to any of my friends. BUT being so vague and cryptic has hurt me.
So, naturally, I wanted to hurt him back.

It's quite normal. But I am not a spiteful person and I would never invade his privacy. That's why I know that he'll be back.
His wife did a background search on him and he almost lost his house,

He said the relationship was already over when he dated another woman for a year. he waited six years before he contacted me.
At first, there was a reconnection. Then, a bond and then boy, oh boy, he fell in love with me all over again. It was fantastic!

We fit together perfectly and then he got SCARED! Dumba$$.
So, now he's lost me. I'm not going down that road again unless he MOVES MOUNTAINS. I don't have that kind of time.

Whether he knows it or not, he decided not to give his heart to anyone. So be it. Be alone, (moron).

Auds
xoxox

I really don't know why it back fired on me horsecrazy. We had already broken up, he had told me he was not ready for the kind of relationship I wanted. He had to work on his own happiness. I sent an email that exposed my entire soul to him and he reacted very cruel. It was like a slap, especially since 3 days prior he told me he still loved me, was in love and would always love me. Whatever. I guess he liked the tough girl with the walls up better. Who knows? And luckily I don't care anymore. I love me way more than he hurt me. I am done, finished, and don't even miss him anymore. Boy did he loose a good woman, poor baby.

Horsecrazy,

Paige does talk about "last ditch" conversations. When you have nothing to lose but your pride, sometimes it makes sense to break the DWD rules. I think this is what your gut is telling you. If you don't put it out there you will never see him again. If you do put it out there you might never see him again.

Your guy told you what the problems were. You have told us what the problems were. You were too busy for him, with work, with school, with friends. He wanted more of your attention. Are you willing to give him that?

You are offering him a solution in your letter. The one that works best for you. You move here. But I think that instead of offering a solution you should ask him what would work best for him. There are a hundred answers to your problem if you two think creatively and if both of you really want to be together. Listen to what he has to say. Then think about a compromise that might make it work. That is the only part of your letter that needs to be reevaluated.

I think you are right. I am not sure your guy will chase you. DWD No Contact works well for guys who are very secure in their relationship with you. I'm not sure he is. And he has other issues such as his employment that are affecting his self esteem too. And partly because of that, and partly because of the way you handle yourself (following all the rules of DWD) I am not sure he really believes that you are into him as much as your letter says. I think letting him know how you feel is a "last ditch" effort. But it may be the right thing to do. But before you do, really ask yourself if YOU are also willing to make accomodations to make this work. It will not work (for him) the way it was. He's told you that. If you don't address the fact that he needs more of your attention you will end up back at this point and even more disappointed. Is this relationship worth more than EVERYTHING else that is taking up your time, or are there some things that could be reevaluated? "More of your attention" is also determined by how much he "needs" too, and this can be looked at when he boosts his self esteem, gets other friends in his life and feels more comfortable with less from you. This is a good option too.

I agree. Take some time. Take the week to think about that and then, if you still feel strongly about your gut feelings do what you think is best for the two of you.

I hate to see you in so much pain. And from what you've told us about him, I think he is in terrible pain also. I don't know if NC or talking to him will work for you. I wish the best for you...he seems like a great guy who really loves you. And I think deep down, you really love him too. You have a physical barrier to overcome. And he has to grow out of the tough spot he is in. Keep us updated.

SZ

Sz says it gracefully everytime.

Wow Horsey. I “almost” don’t know what to say.

Your guy has many other issues other than the fact that he has no self esteem whatsoever. That is what I think we were trying to get through to you. This time is for you to figure out if you want a guy that is clingy and demanding of your time and intolerant of your lack of time ?

For the time being, forget all the crap in these books.

Now many ppl tell me that NC is the best route, which maybe for a while, get him to miss me.

I need to stress at this point that what we in NC are trying to do is to teach you that this time is for YOU ….to decipher what kind of relationship you want. It’s for YOU. You are filling a void for this man…..that he should be filling for himself. Do you want co-dependent love, or real love from a man that is self-assured and emotionally healthy ?

That is what we are trying to say to you, that the function of NC is:
1. To stop analyzing to death all the little details about the past relationship
2. To think about what YOU need in a relationship….really really think about a relationship.
3. Work on yourself…. Fill yourself up with things you like, things that make you feel good, get outside your box a bit, discover who Horsecrazy is when not defined as being in a relationship.
4. To learn the term Goddess and to discover the Goddess in you and return this discovery with Goddess-like behavior (there is a separate thread on Goddess)

This relationship has ended for a reason. It could very well be ended for not the reason you think !

You miss the closeness of someone in your life…that emotional link to someone else… and when that is gone, we tend to build up falsely how we feel about this individual. Sometimes, absence makes the heart grow fonder.

You may feel like you are doing “nothing” by doing nothing……but there are forces at work all around us that shape the events that come to us. He could be summoning up the courage to examine his own life…..and determine yes he needs to make changes, and by god, I DO want Horsecrazy……. And possibly, if you write him….that may come crashing down.

I know everyone will disagree lol, but I've got nothing to lose, because I've lost him already

You just don’t know what reaction your action will give you. By NOT doing anything, you may very well get what you want. By doing something you may very well push this guy away.

As SZ said,....if things are not addressed that were a concern to begin with, you will be right back where you started. Do you want that ?

No one knows for sure what will happen. But we all give you advice out of genuine caring :)

Now that I have totally muddled you up…. Lol…. I wanted to say that you are being wise by waiting a week to do anything…..and that whatever you decide, we support you :)

I personally dont think you should write the letter, even if you have to wait another month, wait.

Men are not stupid and if he has got to have you he will think long and hard about this realtionship because men actually do think about these things and he will make an effort to contact you and make things better in his time.

I wouldnt push it as you wont get the full cake.

robin: i'm sorry he has hurt you that bad, that wasn't nice.

I don't think I'm worried about getting hurt, and if he does hurt me, it will just be easier to get over lol.

SZ: I can't move there, there is no university in 100 mile house. Since he does want more attention, I'm willing to take 3 or 4 courses instead of 5. Most students take 4 courses, I took 5 so that I would be able to finish school faster and be able to move faster, like move to 100 Mile House, for example. I never told him that though. If he moves here, I can be with him more often and also encourage him to make new friends, join clubs, ect. I'm still thinking though, not making any rash decision. I would maybe like to have kids some day and don't want them to have a jealous father. he doesn't seem like the jealous type, but you never know though.

SM and ca: I'm thinking hard about that too. I'm thinking lots about what I want and what I need. I figure if I reach out when he misses me, maybe he'll want to move mountains, because I do ask him to move here, which isn't a big mountain, but still something.
I'm waiting at least a week, maybe even closer to three weeks (that would make 5 weeks of NC in total, to give me my space and him as well). I figure, if he doesn't contact me by then, I've got nothing to lose. Maybe my pride, lol, but I have tons of that anyway.

Horsecrazy,

You will be fine, you are wise beyond your years.

thanks robin, that made me blush.

my mom says the same thing, she says 'when i hear you talk about your relationship, I realize I have nothing to worry about'. and that was with my first bf, 2 years ago. he was the one that i didn't think i could live without. that pain was so big, i never was hurt so bad, because i was completely open to him. mom was worried, but i told her 'i may be in love mom, but i'm not stupid' hahahaha.

so how was your visit with audrey!!!! are you back already? are you staying the night there? where did you go actually? is she that funny in person as well? or a bit more shy? lol

Oh no, I am flying out tomorrow, there are 6 of us from No Contact meeting in Atlantic City. I can't wait. I better go to bed so I can catch the plane. I won't be back until Monday so there will be a few of us absent so that means you and a few others have to take over and be strong! There are heart broken women counting on you! Don't let them down, now you have a purpose! Keep checking in and keep this going please. Ha, you had to ask didn't you?

You all have our phone numbers, right?
You can call anytime (if ther is service in the casinos...)
This is a first.

But, if you couldn't make it THIS TIME there WILL BE A NEXT TIME.
I'm not going anywhere...

Just think "outside the box" and ANYTHING is possible, cyber sisters.

Ben and Dots can't wait to meet Robin.
Sally just called and is very happy for us all.
I'm EXHAUSTED and have so much to do for tomorrow.
Paige... Paige must be beaming.

Yep, we made it happen! We are meeting each other in the flesh and we are such trusting, caring creatures. Yep. That's what's special about us women.

Auds
xoxox

we never really hear from paige. i have some sort of sense who you, robin, and saucymom are, but paige sorta almost doesn't seem real hahaha, i don't know, but she never writes bits of advice here and there once in a while. she might be beaming though, it's cause of her we're here.

Hey Horsie,
100 - Mile House - I thought I recognized that name. It's in British Columbia!

You are from Seattle,right ?So he has to cross the border each time to see you ?

nooo, I live in Kamloops. 100 mile house is in the caribou and i live in the north thompson area. We live just under two hours appart. To drive to the border it takes us 5-6 hours (5 for me, 6 for him)

how do you recognize 100 mile house though!! that place is tiny!!! it's like a tiny dust speck on the map hahaha. takes less then 30 seconds to drive through, only because there are 2 stoplights hahaha.

Horsecrazy -- the last ditch conversation -- when Guitar Guy broke up with me, he did it via e-mail. He refused to talk to me by phone. I figured I had nothing to lose. We had never told each other we love each other. At that time, we had dated 4 months. He always acted like he loved me, but never told me.

I had said some really horrid things to him via e-mail. Not my proudest moment. He had every reason to break up with me.

I explained myself in an e-mail. Told him I was in a very stressful situation with my son overseas, and I was afraid to lose him, the man I love.

So there. I put it in an e-mail. I had never told him before. And frankly, I didn't care. I knew he was gone forever. But I wanted him to know. I wanted him to know I was sorry for hurting him and for breaking us up. I also wanted him to know how I felt about him.

What did I care? He was gone anyway.

I believe in living in my truth.

My ego and pride are strong enough to take the rejection.

He rejected that letter so fast and so strongly that it hurt. It hurt badly. He told me I had no right to say the things I did and he wanted no part of it or of me. I'll never forget it when he said, "Sorry is not enough."

Can you believe it? That's what he had to say!

So there it was.

Total rejection.

We went into no contact.

For 30 days.

I thought it would be forever.

But you know what?

He must have remembered that I put it out there... that I love him. Because he wrote me a song telling me he loves me and when we spoke again after 30 days, he was all over me telling me how much he loves me, that he needed to get that out and express his feelings to me. And now he tells me all the time, that he loves me so much and he acts like it. He's fully committed.

I guess we were both afraid of telling each other.

When I had nothing left to lose, I put it out there.

I'm of the belief that I just don't give a rat's behind. I need to live in my truth.

If he can't handle being loved, then he's not man enough for me. I would never tell a man first that I love him. NEVER, EVER. I don't think a woman should ever do that!

But if he's walking away from me and telling me we're done and he's being a jerk about it after we've shared so much, and it's because I've hurt him, then I'll apologize and tell him I was scared and it's because I'm afraid of losing someone I love. He can draw the conclusion: duh, he's the one I love!

If you truly believe you lost your ex, then I see nothing wrong with laying it out on the line. Don't make it sappy at all, and don't put yourself in a position of weakness! Just tell him how you feel. And be ready for it to backfire. Men like to be right and they sometimes get overwhelmed and don't know how to handle information until long after they receive it.

If you can handle it, then why not?

Just be prepared.

The reply I got was a total slap in the face, just like the reply Robin got.

But mine ended very well a month later. I think mine is unusual though. It's not what usually happens in break ups.

You just never know.

Love is always a chance.

thank you annalisa. I don't think I'm going to write him. I was the first to tell him i loved him and showed it too. i may have protected my heart, but i wasn't going to give out my heart completely untill i knew for sure that he was going to move here, like he said he would. but the reason he won't move now is because is because he doesn't feel like he's special to me. i want to write him a letter, to tell him that it is not true. i did write a letter, telling him it was not true, but still agreed with the break up. i figured agreeing would instill a fear of loss in him (i wrote him two days after the break up). then i wrote him a second letter, where i doubted myself, due to what he said. did i really seem so 'closed up' that he was scared i would leave him 2 years from now. maybe i was not opening up to him like i should have? but i don't know it would have mattered though. he never wrote back to the second letter and then deleted me on his friends list on facebook. he's made a lot of excuses for not moving here.

he says himself that it would have worked out if we lived closer together. yet he isn't moving. i couldn't move for the next 3 years, so he wanted to move here, but never did because he didn't feel special enough. (i wouldn't have bothered hoping he'd moved here if he was happy in 100 mile house, but he says he hates it there and isn't planning on staying there. he also hates his job and plans to leave it, so i hoped but never let myself fall for him completely).

people have told me that he seems head over heels for me. my mom even says he loves me more then i love him. he's also insecure, so maybe that made him reluctant to move here? because girls can also be gone in a 'poof'? and then he's put a lot of effort into moving here. i figure it might scare him. but if he does love me more then i love him, then he'll be back i figure. i've told him that he wasn't 'just another guy' and i've told him that he means the world to me many many many times. so maybe he'll remember that. i've made the first move and wrote him a letter after the break up. i've left open a door. you can read it in the 'i'm crazy!' thread hahaha

Hi "crazy",
There were two guys in my life that were "head over heels" more than I was. My reaction was to disrepect them! Horrible, I know.

The first guy, Mike, was some I knew when I was around 17-18 y.o.
I really liked him for over two years and got nowhere. Then my GF got married. I was the maid-of-honor and he, the best man. We had so much fun at the winter wedding and walked home in the snow with shoes off...must've been dwinkin' a bit:)

Years later, this guy FINALLY decides that we'd be a good match.
Don't remember all the details but I do remember that one day he comes to my apartment and I was a TOTAL B--CH! Anger? You bet!?!
-------

Then I met my long-term 16 year clever but not-so-swift "BF".
At first, he was my REBOUND. Then over time, we had fun and travelled. Intellectually opposite:(
He was into animals... all of them. Me, not so much (at the time).
BTW, THAT changed...
He had a gay brother that died from AIDS. Other stuff that didn't turn me on... wanted to marry me. Ugh!

It's a long story... (16 years, what you want, eh?)
Bottom line, this moron one day was going to get me a pack of cigarettes while out with friends at a bar - dbl-dating for the Holidays, ya know... AND NEVER RETURNED! How utterly humiliating!?!
--------
Annalisa,
YOU struck a chord...
If you truly believe you lost your ex, then I see nothing wrong with laying it out on the line. Don't make it sappy at all, and don't put yourself in a position of weakness! Just tell him how you feel. And be ready for it to backfire. Men like to be right and they sometimes get overwhelmed and don't know how to handle information until long after they receive it.

THEN THERE'S SWISS MISS...Ahem!
Overwhelmed? Just look at the situation the Universe placed us in!?!
Back then, I TRULY believed that if he couldn't be with ME at a time of crisis/grief during the first Holidays after my loss...
THEN GOOD-BYE, CHARLIE. (you, bast--d!)

Notice any "anger" there !!!!
Me thinking: How could you! You're the love of my life... all the other guys would have and they did and YOU... Ugh!

My thinking involved judgments about character and morals/values INSTEAD OF his timetable, issues and personal situations.

So, in all of 2008 - ("don't know how to handle information...")
HE TEXTS ME.
----------
I did not handle ANY OF THOSE situations properly. I can only say that those events were given value by those guys and graded as D/F -
not a passing GRADE.

But that was then and this is now. The first two guys found their happiness with other women. GOOD.
---------
Now, I think, it's important to take responsibility for your own actions, be responsible, and be forgiving of yourself.

If you can look in the mirror and see your own wrong-doings then, I think, you'll be able to forgive others.... and MOVE ON.

If, on the other hand, the guy has these issues - it's the same for them. They may just feel terrible knowing that they showed their "demons" to a wonderful woman.

Like you, crazy, you showed him, told him, how things could work.
But for, whatever reason... it hasn't:(

BTW, Have I got news... on another thread!

Auds
xoxox