SICK after our BreakUp - here's my story posted May 2009:
"J" and I knew each other for about 25 years. We dated in our twenties and he married someone else so he could start his own lucrative business in NY. The marriage didn't work but they stayed business partners and never divorced. He's always been calm and gentle yet secretive, vague and cryptic! Possibly good people with toxic qualities - qualities that I can't relate to.
Fast forward >> Several years back in 2002, "J" shows up at my door and had been living apart from his wife for six years. From that point on we would speak at length 2-3 times a year and have our annual dinner date that always ended in a smooch fest but no sex. For me, I "breathed" him - I was more than smitten.
In 2007, he leaves a message for Easter and I phoned him back leaving a message that my mom was dying. He packed his bags at a very late hour, rushed over and stayed for several days. We renewed our relationship to as it was when we first met. And he stayed with me during a very difficult time during and after my mom passed away. However,he left for the Bahamas during the first Holidays after my loss and I was alone for Christmas and New's Year's. He's totally unaware that I had developed serious health issues including memory lapses. He claims that when he returned I yelled and spoke in anger one evening and we broke up - I wanted a commitment he said. I was pushing too hard. He got scared.
The important part here is that I told him from the beginning and several times, "Don't do this if you're feeling sorry for me". He told me then that he was back and that we would "try".
In this global economic crisis, he has had a lot to deal with in closing down the business and starting another. I had heard that he made a business agreement before the meltdown for another 3 1/2 years. He text messaged me several times during 2008 (on my mom's anniversary, my B-day etc.) but we never spoke. That was definite avoidance but a "proper" acknowledgement! I sent him Holiday Greetings in 2008 and stated that - "I pushed, he left. He left, I panicked". He responded by saying I hit the nail on the head.

He told me on a phone message that "santa" would stop by but neither "santa" nor the "easter bunny" ever showed up.
I had been journaling throughout the year and finally decided to send him a 6-pg. work-in-progress - THE LETTER - right after Easter which included some things that were definitely hard for him to hear. I haven't heard from him and I never mentioned that I had become so sick about all that has happened that I am now on disability.
My thought is that he was being NOBLE. He knows that I was devastated over the loss of my mom and he knows how I feel about him. I am very interested on your take. I'm especially interested on a man's view, if that's possible. My heart is broken.

SM's response dated Sept 23, 2009 (my dad's B-day, btw):
Auds,

I thought you were completely over him? You've certainly sounded totally sorted (and more coherent) of late, although I admit that, without a dedicated thread, I haven't seen you mention him recently. If not you must be doing a brilliant job of compartmentalising?

"A girl in every port". He's a world traveller (due to his job). Men are programmed to spread their seed far and wide, it's only the societal set-up including it's widely pre-agreed rules of conduct that stops this more base urge - the first-hand family/close friend one as well as the peer one and, finally, the general one - all with their explicit and implicit, clear-cut rules regarding what's acceptable and what's not.

He lacks this set-up - due to his being almost constantly on the move. He can spread himself around, it's known he long has it in him, ergo WHY *WOULDN'T* HE?

Cohabitation or not - a partnership happens in the heart/head and if he was still seeing her as her boyfriend and, she believed, exclusively, then cheater is what he was/is. I don't believe that ordinarily you're an aider and abetter in that way, not since you "took umbrage" rather than felt perfectly justified and illustrated such accordingly and ballsily (which too many 'professional' mistresses do wholeheartedly). I believe you got sucked in due to the traumas you'd suffered which had left you and your powers of judgement impaired.

Right Person (or potential to be), Right Place, Wrong Time (definitely wrong time!).

To take advantage of another's low period like that for the power of selfish good only - i.e. knowingly to the actual *detriment* of the person concerned meanwhile, both in the short- and long-term - IS slimey. It's underhanded, mercenary and coldhearted by total denial of the consequences of one's actions. Or are you now telling me he had no clue of your then-recent traumas?

1. If I find out that he'd spent those Holiday weeks in the Bahamas with "wife"

He is not the sole initiator and decision-maker in that relationship so why WOULDN'T she expect and insist on going with him??? How could he justify NOT inviting her, let alone not taking her??? Why wouldn't *he* WANT to? Think about all the ramifications.

And how would you be able to find out one way or the other anyway?

2. If he'd been co-habitating

He comes and goes due to his professional travels. How could you know if he was or even semi was? How would SHE even be able to tell the difference in that situation...irrespective that he still keeps his own pad? He might tell her he keeps it due to some business reason (clearly he executes work there).

3. Lying by omission to have the "best of both worlds"
Then he's a slimy b--d. All he's done, from what I know, is that he conducted business at HIS home with her.

Think of all the things you now know but didn't back then - and which of those he told you willingly.

Why WOULDN'T he want the best of both worlds when it's entirely practicable???? ...particularly when he can account for any absences under the excuse of his profession and its globe-trotting nature.

ISN'T IT ENOUGH SIMPLY THAT SHE BELIEVES SHE'S HIS LONG-TERM, EXCLUSIVE GIRLFRIEND AND HE IS AWARE OF THAT FACT?

We don't fall in love according to logic and logistics, just pure and necessarily irrational emotions, so it matters not how you rationalise and justify; they're separate entitites. Unfortunately, however, logic and logistics, their ramifications, can still IMPACT on our emotions and affect our self-esteem, particularly if you DO believe in and adhere to the societal No-Nos regarding pair-bonded couples' conduct. If you do when, evidently, he doesn't, you and the man will have a fundamental and significant difference in attitude towards life, meaning zero morals in common or a massive discrepancy in their levels, and this would prove a highly self- and union-destroying incompatibility that no amount of chemistry could ever compensate for.

Like you said to Tork: Chemistry + *Trust*. You may not 'mind' being the mistress - or may not feel able to AFFORD to heed the ramifications of being a mistress - but how would you feel being - as you inevitably would become - the betrayed 'spouse'?????

But you've never experienced a free and unfettered relationship with him so you've never had the opportunity to realise that, again, in this respect you're from different planets, speaking different day-to-day languages, and it couldn't, wouldn't work given exclusivity.

So that leaves dealing with the emotions thus putting them well and truly to bed.

You know this already so - Why? Why does your source of thing-getting power (emotions) keep charging you up to go after and get this thing instead of switching off? Because when that ignition to the Getting Vehicle's engine is no longer required, switch off is definitely what it does. Why hasn't it switched off due to a realisation of the past-planned journey's futility, or reorientated towards the direction of another man or even the mere idea of another man?

Does this J represent your ideal half relationship in terms of either direct or by-default emotional distance? And is that a 'facility' that only he represents simply because you've no other experiential-based conception of there being other men in your reach who could and would happily provide that? ...like Jimbo or Simon?

I say that because Like Attracts Like (personality AND circumstance AND lifestyle desires in common) even on this board.

I suggest if I've raised any issues you copy/paste our three-part exchange into a dedicated thread.

Truthfully, I don't think you're a million miles away from getting that badge because - glaringly indicatively - you, as opposed to the necessarily self-deluded and determined mistress-by-choice, were open even to CONSIDERING he could be slimey. ;-)

xoxo

Audrey,

You know my answer here. He is not present. What is he doing? You have no clue. Is he thinking about all of this like you are? If he was don't you think he would be moving those mountains? I tend to go on a man's actions or lack of. What are his actions showing you now, not at Christmas or Easter. This is about you NOW.

He came into your life when you were vunerable. You have memory lapses. Do you really really know what he is all about.

Years ago I was crazy about this guy. He seemes like such a great guy and I held on for years. I thought I knew him. He was in and out of my life, but because we had such a connection when he was in, I kept my eyes shut. This went on for 10 years on and off. Recently, about 1 1/2 years ago we met again. I was sane then. My eyes opened and I was like wow, what was I thinking all of that time. The rose colored glasses fell off and just wow. I thought he was noble. I made all sorts of excuses for him and rationalized his on again off again behavior. Never again, you are either present or you are not. Its black and white, really it is.

Robin, Thank you for your response. I spoke with my GF in Munich yesterday and we had a laugh because swiss miss left my B-day message in two languages. So, I said,"U" need to be here because you can speak the same two languages and I respect and value your opinion.

Here in the US: no one can follow his messages all the way through... and it was loooong.
I can't hear or remember.
They can't understand.
And you are over THERE.

I told her that and we cracked up...she said that the Economic crunch is still affecting everyone and private business is shakey.
Auds
xoxox

Audrey,

I know I shouldn't but this sentence really made me smile -
He's always been calm and gentle yet secretive, vague and cryptic!.....Isn't that just men in general???:) Sounds like they are all the same mould essentially!

I'm sorry to hear about your illness,hope you're feeling ok.

Can I ask a couple of questions -
1) did you ever tell him about your illness?
2) You said in your second post that you and him had gotten together like ye were when ye first met. Did he disappear at all throughout that before he went away? Has he ever explained why he left again since?

It all sounds really messy to tell the truth. Am I right in summarising it as such:
You love him. He loves you but probably still loves his wife as well. You are friends always, but more occassionally. He's with his wife for his business and from what I can pick up from SM's reply, he travels a lot to various places where he possibly has sex with other women?

Audrey, I really don't know what to say but OUCH! It sounds like an awful situation to be in for you. Can I be brutally honest -it sounds like you love him with all your being, are there for him 100% of the way but he's not reciprocating even half of that. He's tied to to a million other things that seem to take priority over you. Audrey how is that fair to you? You've given such great advice to me before and I wish I knew what you should do.

I guess the thing you have to ask yourself (along with the rest of us!) is how long you want to wait for him to make you his priority.

By the way, the chemistry must be bloody fantastic to keep the link open for this long:))))

Ariac,thank you for your pre-reply before you go to that great weekend event! "I really don't know what to say but OUCH!"

"Can I ask a couple of questions -
1) did you ever tell him about your illness?
NO, he doesn't know.

2) You said in your second post that you and him had gotten together like ye were when ye first met.

YES, WHEN HE CALLED ME that Easter and left a message",It's you're Easter bunny calling."
I replied by phone and spoke to him,"Apparently, you don't know what's going on.... I need you here NOW.
He came over late that night. We had SEX. He drew me a bath. He took care of my mom while I went food shopping. he stayed for three days.

Did he disappear at all throughout that before he went away?
NO. He told me about his family and asked to see pics of BF's, called me whenever he could but was out of range most times.
I asked him would he be with me more if he could. OF COURSE, h
he replied.

Has he ever explained why he left again since?
He needed to make a business decision and time to think and I was outta control at the time. He came back Jan 8, 2008 and I have no recollection of what took place. I was taumatized.

When I called two days later he said that I verbally bashed him.
He said he was off to Japan and that we'll talk... never said when.
We never got that chance.

He tried, in person, but we kept missing each other. On more than one occasion. Last contact, was a cellphone call and he spoke to my GF because I was DRIVING my car - have no bluetooth.

Final ques: how long you want to wait for him to make you his priority?
Until I get an answer from him or I meet someone new that will "blow up my skirt". Thst's when I make a conscious love decision.

So your answer is OUCH! Just grrrrr-eat! lol

btw, "bloody fantastic" - an honorable man!
he cooks, he cleans, held off on sex, did not push...
Is there such a thing as a sheep in pig's clothing?

There's a little chapel on Mt. Rigi in Lucerne, do you know it?
And I'll place one of the pearl necklace's he gave me in there IF I NEED TO. It's either that or we walk in there together. That's the DEAL.
Auds
xoxox

Audrey

When are you going to give up on the swiss miss guy?

ITM, thanks for your question. Hope you don't mind reading through from the top to answer mine.
Auds
xoxoxox

audrey

I was planning on rereading Anna karenina tonite, at least during the commercials while the s carolina ole miss game is on. (Ole miss>that sounds cind of like swiss miss, sorry)

Could you help me understand first what it is you are wanting for yourself?

RIght this minute all I can do is the Ol' Vinnie Barbarinni "I'm so confused"

WHo is Swiss Miss? Is that your AKA Audrey?

I am not Audrey, but yes! She is getting red wine at the market.

Chris & ITM, swiss miss = the guy.
WE named our situational guys. That's the name I gave "John".

Please guys read about my situation...from the top and please answer my question at the first post.
Analyze, critique...men!...(btw, glad you've come over to help me((smooches!))
Auds
xoxox

P.S. Chris, you are not allowed by DWD law to be confused - you have a Job to do - you are Joe Friday.
ITM, you need to read carefully each and every line...boringly and soooo loooong and pretend you are HIM.

No TV for you guys tonight! Be MEN. DO THE JOB! and btw, you figure it out, no stup!d questions...THANKS EVER SO MUCH
Auds
xoxox while I sit back, joy a glass of "w" and have a cigarettes

Men, I love 'em! :))))

Dear Audrey,
You have been there for me on NC thread. So I will add to this conversation.

Is swiss miss a gem in the rough -or- character-flawed?

What a question. I don't believe the question can be answered in the way you posed it.
A gem in the rough is not the opposite of character-flawed.

So,he could be both of these things.
Or, none of these things.

You have rehashed this story before... filling in gaps of information for us readers....writing about it over and over. And you have shared with me many details, that show what a beautiful, intelligent and sensitive person you are.

The point here I think is, we have read this wonderful, frustrating story.... but that you have lived this story....
For too long, Audrey :( You have lived this story for too long.

You have been waiting (so to speak) for so long... and he has not shown up in a meaningful, long lasting way for you. If he had, you would not be with us now.

Audrey.... Audrey... how long are you willing to live your life like this ?

He could be a diamond in the rough.... but how long are you going to do the mining to find the gem? Polish it off? Discover it is a diamond? Or discover it is a dud?

He could have character flaws..... we all do. What is the determining factor here is which character flaws are you willing to live with ?

Audrey... you spend so much time and thought processes on swiss miss. This is why you are not getting past this. Past him. Your thoughts are wrapped around the past, what talks you've had, the confusion you've had, and yes, when he was there for you when you needed a friend the most.

Is that enough ? Is that what you want to fill your life-book with - fleeting moments of happiness with this man, in amongst pages and pages of frustration because of him?

The only questions that really matter are:
1. Is Audrey happy with the current situation ?
2. If not, what is Audrey going to do to change HER life ?
3. How long is Audrey willing to spend on this person, when he is, for all intents and purposes, not making the same effort on your behalf ?

You are such a wonderful person, Audrey. Giving, enlightening, support for us all.

It is time for you to be these things for...... yourself !

Love Saucy

Saucy, thank you for your response.

So, you do not think:
I don't believe the question can be answered in the way you posed it.
A gem in the rough is not the opposite of character-flawed.

So,he could be both of these things.
Or, none of these things.

My Ques? was meant to mean: was he being noble or a lying-sack-o-sh!tt -

Put yet another way:
So, Sauce, I say it in plain freakin' English.
Did he do this out of love, leave outta fear or totally defCon and use me because he's an opportunist.

That's important to me!!! Then I can move on...
Auds
xoxox

He is neither. Or he could be both. You will not know and moving on comes from you. We all seek answers and if we wait for them we will be stuck on this no contact forum for enternity, which I really think a lot of us will be here forever but that is because of the friendships that we have formed.

Moving on is a personal choice that you make based on what is in your best interest. Holding onto a man that is not here for you is not in your best interest. You are beautiful (can't spell that anymore thanks to buitifil) warm, funny, smart, witty, full of light, share it with someone who is present in your life. I know you are sick to death of that word present, but it is so true.

Robin, What are you doing here, missy? I already asked you and You already did your job fulfilling my request. THX...smooches.

You belong over in N/C county or having virtual celebrations with SIP!
Get outta here and let's have some fun!
I already took care of ca...

THANK YOU now Shoo!
Auds
xoxox

Well excccuuuuse me for pointing out all of your wonderful qualities, you are the diamond in the rough here.

Audrey,

Sometimes we get stuck, we get stuck, we get stuck on a situation (namely a man) because of the way we believe we feel about him and that belief allows us to continue to hold on, even when all facts point to him just not ready or looking for a relatonship.

Did you ever stop to think of the circumstance that lead him back into your life? He was there fixing, making it all better and you let your guard down, you realized what is was like to be cared for by a man who really cared and you wanted it to continue, it felt good, it had to, I know it did!

From there you hoped the relationship would progress because of what the two of you shared, unfortunately you believed in the two of you coming together as a couple because of his kind gesture and he never stopped believing he was there to help you as your friend in need. At the time your emotions were raw, you were wounded and wearing your heart on the sleeve and he was there to offer guidance, support and he made everything ok for you. With all you were going through you didn't stop yourself from falling, because your head was else where.

How does a man tell a woman who is hurting, the timing is not right or emotions too heavy for him to start a relationship with her? He doesn't he moves on and instead of her letting him go, she follows him while being lead by her heart.

It's time to stop following him and let him go.

EJ, Much appreciated that you came over here and read... all that.. but Crap, EJ.
Thanks for your "candor in softness".

EJ, you can't be serious with your remark - "Did you ever stop to think..." ROFL

... guess if he doesn't or never pushed then he can't move mountains.

Auds
xoxox

LOl, okkkkk!!

Whatever fits and work for you, smiles.

Apparently you haven't moved on becuase you are stuck, what is there to know about a man and his feelings if he isn't there to share them with you? What you do know by his actions, he is NOT there!!

He responded in a noble way, a kind gesture offered to a friend, you let him into you heart, he was still holding onto being your friend until you pushed the envelope, wanting more, he couldn't handle it, it was too much, he ran.

What else is there is there to know now?

EJJJJJ- he did the NOBLE thing!
Thank YOU.
Auds,
xoxoxoxoxox

I want more.... and he promised... he promised he would be therE foR me... and he offered...he offered to give me money... and he loves me.... and he said we would try.
He made a DEAL!@

That's what I needed to know. {smiles} and (((( smooches))))

Apparently Audrey he is not a man of his word. I am soooo sorry. He is not keeping his end of the deal. I am going to be quiet now because you are not listening. xoxoxo.

dick promised me he would never hurt me again as well, but things change and he did, but I can't force him and would not dream of trying. They both have moved on, if I can face it, so can you. We can face it together, please let him go.

NOOOO! I won't. We got a new "patient". Let me go... I have just told her about you,,,now, SHOO!

Dammit Audrey, I swear!!!!!! You just can't shooo me like that. I am grown!

rOBIN, LMAO... Love you... Can I live with you in your condo in FL during the winter.?I will PAY for us to go visit Annalisa.

WHY IS IT THAT YOU MAKE ME LAUGH when I wanna CRY, GF???
Auds
xoxoxox

What are the DWD "rules" on trapsing behind the one's you love?
There MUST be a rule or a law! ....ROMAL

Audrey,

Diamond...

Noble...

All I can see honestly is a man that you've known for decades acting as a good friend and caretaker, caretaker, caretaker.

You may not like what I am about to say, but please remember it is being said out of love and concern for Audrey.

John is not that in to you! Audrey appears to be unstable and probably might want to control the drinking...It's a HUGE obstacle in a person's life and affects not only judgement, personality, but memory as well.

You are desperately looking and waiting for someone to give you the green light for staying in this unrequited love affair! I won't be the one to do that to a friend.

You don't have any idea how hard this is for me to say these things to you after getting to know you a little on here. You've grown on me and I apologize if any of this is hurtful.

It's meant as an eye opener, that's all.

He apparently already has a life...that does NOT include you. We all have that thing where we want to remember the great things about that selfish person. But if you want a real answer and fix to your problem, start remembering the things that left you feeling alone, hurt, and sick! Now that's NOT a friend, really.

You mentioned he promised you money?? What is that about? The reason I wouldn't respond to your questions about "noble" and diamond" is because none of it matters.

Audrey, I don't know if you are out there looking for other people, but even to do that before you get "healthy" is going to be a disaster. Fix yourself, feel good about yourself, rely on yourself...first.

You wrote this amazing thread and that shows that you are ready to make a change and take a stand for yourself...finally!! It's a huge first step.

A very big HUG for you!

Audrey, I'm here. I read the whole thread.

You are being a big baby.

You posted a question for everyone to comment on and your dear friends gave you advice they truly believe is in your best interest. They read your situation and gave it careful thought. You didn't like what they had to say, so you shooed some away, you dismissed others, and just didn't really like others' comments.

What I gather is that you are hoping for someone to jump on here and tell you that swiss miss is a noble man.

1. We can't do that because we don't know swiss miss and can't make that call. Only you know. How does one know if someone is noble? You have to ask yourself some questions. Do they keep their word? How do they treat others? Is he faithful to his wife? Is he faithful in his business transactions? Is he kind to others? How does he treat servers in restaurants? Pay attention to those scenarios for how a man reacts in those instances tells you a lot about how he will one day treat you.

Is he a diamond in the rough? That is not our place to say. Only you know that. None of our exes, dates or boyfriends are perfect. WE are not perfect. That's why we need God and Jesus. We are not perfect. Forgiveness is a beautiful thing.

But we need boundaries.

If our boundaries get violated, we have to step back and ask ourselves if the person violating the boundaries has our best interest at heart. Does that person love us? That's how we determine true love. One time violations don't count unless they're severe. We all make one-time violations. It's patterns you have to notice.

Humans have to honor each others' boundaries and love each other enough to respect those boundaries and protect each others' hearts.

Does he protect your heart and make you feel safe?

That's what you should be asking yourself.

Does Audrey feel loved and safe... RIGHT NOW?

Even in his absence. Does Audrey feel loved and safe by swiss miss?

If the answer is no, then you need to move on.

If he one day shows up again, then you can revisit this at that time.

Until then, you have to move on as if he is gone forever.

That's what the other ladies on this board have done. Some have had shocks when their exes have resurfaced. It's been easier to deal with because it happened after they've moved on. So they've been armed and strong enough to deal with it. Their boundaries were healthy and in place.

Got it?

Does Audrey feel loved and safe RIGHT NOW? Right now? Even though swiss miss is not present?

If the answer is no, then move on.

I love you girl!

Annalisa

P.S. I know and have visited that church in Lucerne. It is beautiful! You can go there and drop off a letter to yourself declaring your independence of this emotional torture! Then light a candle. Say a prayer that you'll never allow this to happen to you again!

That's right Audsie...NEVER! Or we will be all over your New York Ass!!!

And Audsie, cry if you must, but not for too long, ok? ;)

uughh!! I just spent 10 min responding to Aud and this situation in my flu like state! right when I went to post it the whole flippen thing disappeared!! I could scream right now..but I am not..I am just going to say good night.
Auds, I have some words of wisdom for you..but now they are going to have to wait until tomorrow.sorry! I just feel too crappy to start that all over again! Damn PC!

Hang in there Auds! I will catch you tomorrow

nite nite Strong...

Everyone that responded - I will say Thank You first and then good Night.

I must have been draining to you all today and I apologoze for that after a hard day's work!
That's what happened with John... after a hard days work...
Thank you!
I am still and ,I was, too much to handle!

He said, "If you can handle me, you can handle anything!"

I believe he said that becauce he wanted me to get out of my "funk"
Do you call "funk" losing your family?...

He's not here.. and neither do I want to be.. and this session is closed!
Thank You and Good-Night.

Much appreiciated fedback to all of you that responded...
Auds
xoxoxox

Audrey, hi,

You really need to move on and meet a man who really, really, REALLY! wants to be with you. I've seen your facebook photo, you're beautiful! And funny too ;)

XXXXXXXXXXxxx

Audrey,

One thing stuck in my mind after reading all the posts and your replies.

You said he promised you. Every one of us on this site had promises made to us but as you've said yourself before - what good are the words if his actions are not backing them up. What are his actions saying? Audrey, he's not there, he's not calling. It doesn't matter what he promised you in the past, that's the truth of it. You KNOW all this.

My ex promised me the sum moon and stars when we got back together, but had anything really changed - NO. We behaved a little nicer and kinder to each other but essentially nothing changed and we are now ex's again. The words mean sweet F*** all (hows that for plain English, haha!) if he's not showing you he meant them.

Audrey, you know you have 2 options, yeah?

Option 1: Keep waiting for him to come through on his promise to you. Who knows how long that will be, could be another 2 months, maybe 10 years, maybe never.

Option 2: Let him go. Write him off as a bad debt for now and start from scratch. Pick yourself up piece by piece and maybe someday you'll find that all consuming, butterflies in your stomach, love with someone else. Except this time it'll be with someone who wants you as much as you want him, someone who never wants to let you go.

At the end of the day, it's your decision on how want to play this. Hope this doesn't wreck your head too much:)

Annalisa, thanks for reading the entire thread.... and the letter.
"I am being a big baby"...Hmmm! Perhaps, subcon.

Strong, don't ya just HATE when you do ALL THAT TYPING... and then Poof!

Carla, thank you. the pic on here is an older version and the one on FB is from a few years ago. Please don't, when/if you meet me say:
"You have the body of a model" because it's a constant reminder of how I got here - STRESS! Sincerely,Thank You, very much:)

Ariac, you really mean business, don't you, GF. You did what I requested. I'm fine with your reply... and like I said to Robin... Shoo!:))))) I don't need ALL that LUV.

Auds,

Ok, I got a semi good night sleep and I am going to attempt this again. I still feel like crap though so if there is a bunch of errors in my writing, please try to see past..lol

I can very clearly see what is going on with you. I have a strong understanding and I am going to try to explain it in writing..I hope I make sense..

But here I go..

This guy was a big part of your life 25 years ago, he made you feel good and you really liked him. But, he married another women. Sounds more like for financial reasons than anything else. (first clue he isn't a diamond in the rough)

He separates from his wife and years later shows back up on your door. You still have the chemistry and attraction for him so you let him in..But, at this time your life is going ok. Your health is good your mom is good..the world around you is going ok..So, you accept the relationship for what it is at that time, probably wanting more, but allowing it to just be ( on his schedule) that is..(still looking for the diamond)

It sounds like through out all these years your feelings are very strong for him(I can't find his) and you know (or think you know) that he will always be there for you. Kind of like a Rock. So you are moving along at his pace 2-3 a year?! While he is busy running a business and traveling the world! (still trying to find that diamond)

Fast forward now to your world starts to crash and you start to crash with it. Your mom gets sick, all of sudden, he is there! Just like you expected him to be and of course he "promised". He is there for 3 days..whew hoo! Then he is off to the Bahamas for holiday and leaves you alone during this time (there is diamond for ya) sarcasm incase you missed it.

Bottom line..You allowed for this man to become a fantasy figure that you created him to be in your head. Because, it was exactly what you needed at that time! This happened to you because you were weak at a moment in time..It has been allowed to foster over the years because you have never been able to spend any long term time with him..The distance has allowed for you to grow your imagination..When he would come around, occasionally, 2 to 3 times a year you would relish in "idea" of him, the "fantasy" of him, the man YOU made him out to be...BUT NOT the man he really is...Of course he could never prove that to you because he was never around long enough for you to figure it out!!(now there is a diamond for you)

This thread needs to turn into a thread about AUds..not about Swiss miss..Auds needs to start finding herself again. She needs to stop distracting herself with a fantasy that only existed in her head over a glass of wine when you get bored...

Speaking of wine, and please don't get me wrong, I love it! But, Darlin is right..it would be a good idea to cut back on that until you are through this...It only makes it worse when you are already emotionally down! There is nothing wrong with an occasionally pity party and good glass of wine to have with it. But, this situation has been going on for years for you now..You need to stop and FIND yourself again..Your whole life is going to pass you by whilst you wait, ponder and pity...Dig deep within you..It is there! You are STRONG, smart, quick witted, funny, capable and beautiful!!!(YOU are the DIAMOND) NOT HIM!

xoxoxoxox

Strong - thank you!
1.But, at this time your life is going ok...
NO, my father had DIED

2.So, you accept the relationship for what it is at that time...
NO, I "gently kicked him out" and said," you, Drive me crazy"... when he called one evening, I remember asking him,"Are you AVAILABLE and UNattached?" HE SAID YES, OF COURSE.

3. Kind of like a Rock. YOU BET.

4. While he is busy running a business and traveling the world!
I WAS CRAZY BUSY AT SCHOOL, WRITING GRANTS, INFUSING TECH INTO THE LARGEST MIDDLE SCHOOL IN QUEENS, WINNING AWARDS AND RUNNING CFY etc., to mention a few...

5. Your mom gets sick, all of sudden. YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE IT IF I TOLD YOU. That truly is twiligt-zoney and another story in and of itself... YES!

6. Just like you expected him to be and of course he "promised".
NO, NO, NO... It was quite AMAZING that HE CALLED ME THE DAY BEFORE HER SURGERY...OUT OF THE BLUE, LIKE ... effen AMAZING!!!

7. He is there for 3 days..whew hoo!
HE IS THERE BECAUSE I ASKED HIM TO. I "RIPPED" him out of bed with a phone call LATE AT NIGHT - so to speak - I said, Come over N-O-W.
He walked for a few blocks to catch a cab, packed stuff and STAYED FOR THREE DAYS. I didn't asked him to do THAT. Please re-read my comments, GF.... Aww! Sorry, you are still sick...sorry!

8. Because, it was exactly what you needed at that time!
YES, YES, YES That's what all my mother's friends and neighbors said. We would all get together whenever he came over. He would banter and bring gifts. My tenant 87 y.o. and her husband 88 y.o. LOVED HIM andthey said: YOU, swiss miss, ARE HER BEST MEDICINE.

9. Speaking of wine, and please don't get me wrong, I love it! But, Darlin is right..it would be a good idea to cut back on that until you are through this...
YES. DID THAT. YES. It wasn't easy for me in 2008. Shhh! I mix it with seltzer (a spritzer )or fruit juice BTW. I'm a homeowner, you know!!! You NEED to be RESPONSIBLE.

10. YOU are the DIAMOND NOT HIM!
I AM THE DIAMOND (THX!!!!)... AND HIM

Thank you, Strong, for your response!!! Feel better and sorry you had to type all that all over AGAIN!
Auds,
xoxox

Auds,,

Something else I have picked up on and forgot to mention..You sound like you are blaming yourself for this not working out? and justifying him..Just curious, maybe I missed it.But when was the last time you spoke with him or saw him? Where is he right now?

Strong , it ALWAYS takes TWO. But I have an excuse and he is "just a moron"...

Where is he right now? Here, there, maybe in China.
Whenever anyone used to ask me THAT, I would respond, "NOT HERE".

He's BUSY and all over the place. Usually exercises, extremely health conscious, very social and got lots to do.
He was the TREASURER of the blah...blah..blah and has to do the finances at nights... NOT SO EASY these days.

Wonder how his mom is doing at 90- something. Hmmmm! He calls her once a week. He likes old people and dogs.

Auds
xoxox

P.S. "I got a semi good night sleep .." you need some lunch and a nap
and smooches

Auds, lmao!

You forgot the other question though, when was the last time you spoke with him or saw him?

Audrey, I hope I didn't come off as being too cold.

You are an extremely intelligent woman (I can see behind the mask), and I also can see that you aren't stuck, you have made a decision to take baby steps forward! It shows now. :) :) :)

This is HUGE Audrey!

You take care of your self! Do what is HEALTHY for Audrey, after all..."What's It All About...Alfie?

It no longer matters anymore when she last talked to him or saw him...that is going backwards and Audrey needs to look forward. She has been looking back for so long and this is why it's been so excruciatingly painful.

Please keep looking forward Alfie!

Everyone on here loves you!!!! :)

Strong, I'm on just for a few tthis morniing before work. Hope you are feeling better ! :)

D..I have been trying t catch up with you this morning all over this board! lol!! I feel horrible still and I am very frustrated about this!!

I agree with not looking back..def only forward with AUds..Maybe we need to start a thread for her only...

I will and I have the tilte! You must have ESP!!!.

Drink lots and rest, that's it, that's all you can do! hugs!!!

Yes, me too..it is called "AUD's is moving forward"

"moving forward after a break up"

"not wasting your life on a looser"

Looking forward and moving up"

"Finding our strength within"

Positive affirmations to get beyond the past...

xoxox

Strong, see, I ALWAYS FORGETTING summthin'
Last time was... Robin, Annalisa ..HELP!
But the last time he called and left a message and wanted so badly to contact me was AUG 18 THIS YEAR.
By the time he finishes talking, you could vacuum the entire house!

Oh! and remember he does numbers real well...well, I said back then in 2007:
ME, a Math teacher, asked: How good are YOU AT MATH?
HE goes: Pretty good! ... (we chuckled)

Strong, you should really read through all my 180-something pages of crap on DWD... So that you get the ENTIRE Picture...ROFL
Auds
xoxox

It's HOT down here in the dungeon, darlin'
Why, you want a sweater?

"You are an extremely intelligent woman..."
then WHY did I lose the man of my dreams...DUH!

"..."What's It All About...Alfie?"
Jeez, I never heard THAT ONE before!!!

By the way, Sonny(AC) says,"Hi."

John is very selective and discreet and if he EVER found out that I was talking about him to all of you...then oh boy!
(Go ahead triple-dare me, "moronski"!!!) He's such an id!ot.

Audsie,

I've read everything and I now get it.

Interesting and highly (contextually-speaking) unorthodox word choice of yours to describe this 'ex boyfriend', that: Noble.

Nobility... Lord of the manner... The master... The person in charge who is responsible for and looks after his underlings (the tenants on his land).

We don't have to give this guy any labels like loser because he's just being him. (I apologise for calling him slimey, btw; I hope you saw where I corrected that to 'behaving slimily'?) (albeit that that's a subjective label). And I'm sure in his way he does love you because he COULD perform in an extreme necessity, thus show he cared, when he could foretell that not doing so would render his behaviour heinous even in his own eyes.

Easter, Xmas - not good to let someone down on but - do-able. Let you down where your actual MOTHER, your last remaining parent DYING was concerned (and when he understands that strength of relationship by virtue of his own close relationship with his mother)? ABSOLUTELY NOT do-able. Hence he was there for that one but not the others.

But his behaviour is too obviously that of a man who cannot romantically commit, and, I'm betting, not TO ANYONE. Neither, note, can he commit even to one place. If he did commit to one place, he'd lose an important and significant excuse fortifier against committing to a woman.

He said, "If you can handle me, you can handle anything!"

I remember asking him,"Are you AVAILABLE and UNattached?" HE SAID YES, OF COURSE.

Interesting that you had little issue with the relationship you sampled BEFORE he had known a relationship that was fully committed. Clearly, having sampled it properly via his marriage, he realised it most definitely wasn't for him; that he wants to be a life loner. Very part-time relationships, lots of little relationships spread around the globe, the job that HELPS him avoid committing? Those are do-able, they're necessary in fact. Albeit his choice to be solitary is his, that doesn't stop his humanistic needs crying out for attention from time to time. That's when he pit-stops to refuel his Me Alone car.

This mindset of his and what his feelings for you MEAN and always will mean in real terms, are so obvious that, I wonder why someone as intelligent and insightful as you cannot see it. So that leaves, you don't want to see it.

Why don't you want to see it? Answer: Because not seeing it suits you.

Why does it suit you?

You would find it no less difficult to throw away your first-ever teddy bear that your dear mum and dad had given you. In fact, you'd find it EASIER because Ted cannot open his mouth and share memories. Ted had no sentience to begin with so isn't even merely constantly AWARE of these memories, i.e. doesn't carry your parents inside of him.

This being the case, your initial relationship with him, and his visit when your mum was still living, meant that he now firmly represents two eras when your parents were both alive and there to look after you.

Particularly as your own memory is failing, meaning you need someone to refreshen it for you. The only one who CAN (or, and whom you even wish to have around) is John...because he was there!

I've been able to tell between the lines of things you've posted since you came on here, that you feel unsupported in real life in terms of a constant source of comfort, a parent figure.

So those reasons for your otherwise incomprehensible strength of feeling for a person who doesn't even stoke it enough to stop it naturally dying out (which it ordinarily would), does now make everything understandable to everyone (I hope?).

Yep. THAT is what makes him so special, purely subjectively, despite the actual facts and lack of emotional facilitation. You feel extra close to him over any individual on this planet - because (aside from him having behaved like a great substitute parent figure himself, when your mum was passing away) - you thereby feel extra close to your late parents through him.

Not realising this subtle but powerful association, you have tried desperately to pin other, more tangible reasons onto the cause for this level of love for him...reasons that don't actually gel in any objective, logical sense. You do this rather than consider you're mad (because you know from other areas that you're not).

You're trying to rationalise your unquantifiable and unqualifiable feelings of attachment and avoidance of feelings of detachment, but attributing their cause to the 'wrong' thing (John).

So. John is a talisman, a symbol of your parents, a symbol of a time when you didn't feel so totally alone in the world in the sense of having had older and capable family members to make you feel safe.

John wouldn't EVER have to DO anything, very little in fact (just like the present reality) to keep you wanting to believe he is 'yours', except to reassure you that he'll always be a part of your life...irrespective that it must be long-distance with accordingly rare communication and meetings in person.

It's not that he's not being with you in the flesh that bothers you right now, is it. It's that you need to know how he FEELS in order to know he'll stay involved with you MENTALLY. A spiritual connection. ...in this case (ref your parents), LITERALLY.

It's not necessarily the important factor whether he actually *romantically* loves you, it's more that he reminds you so stongly that you WERE (and might still be, ref the afterlife???) loved like a nurtured child.

But logic keeps tapping on your shoulder to say, 'He CAN'T reciprocate those feelings, Auds, otherwise he'd give me signs that our virtually spiritual-only connection was still going strong...and he's been too quiet for too long'.

Tell me I'm wrong here, but... I believe that given, via a magic wand, the choice between having an orthodox romantic relationship with him or having (somehow) him made magically into your actual, true big brother, you'd chose the latter.

?

So. Question. With this being your innocence of agenda, why don't YOU keep on endeavouring to get in contact with him?

Answer: Because it's not HIS agenda. Hence you had sex with him. You give him 'girlfriend' perks, he gives you brotherly ones. So, according to GIRLFRIEND rules, you can't 'hound' him.

Question (non-rhetorical): Have you ever thought about being honest about what you want and need from this man? Clearly he DOES feel lonely himself, hence his re-fuelling whenever the 'monster has to be fed' in order to shut it up again. Has it occurred to you that he might LIKE the idea of playing brother to you instead of lover?

You've been effectively bribing him to be your brother by offering yourself as a girlfriend figure, see. Whereas if you took that pressure off, I'm betting he'd be capable of staying in contact more often, because he DID make like a family member that time. So I reckon that the very carrot you've been dangling is actually what has been keeping him MOSTLY away. I think he'd prefer a parsnip. (Doh! indeedie :-D)

If I'm wrong in my conclusions then - boy! - you are waaaaaay more complicated than even *I* first thought.

Do me a favour - as this concerns a part of your psyche you haven't yet got in touch with, give it some proper chewing over before you respond (unless you get an instant Ping!, of course).

xoxo

Audrey, we do get the entire picture. Now you have to get the entire picture. He is not in the picture, you are. He is a black and white in a shoe box, leave him there. Put your picture in full color on your top shelf.