I just skimmed through your gushing thread and I think for a huge part you have a winner. You may need to just chill a bit. He sounds like a good guy who is really into you.

I get irked too when people do not respect my time so I do understand. However no one is perfect. I think he really did want to see you but was a bit unrealistic as to how long he was going to be. Some people just have no sense of time.

If you jump on this flaw, a couple of things may happen. He may do it more just to assert his rightness about it and it will be a constant thorn in your side, or he may consider you too high maintenance and start pulling away.

Should you put up with chronic lateness? No. You are a professional woman and your time is valuable. However I strongly advise you pick your battles. Late at night when you are tired and grumpy anyway is not a good time to make a date. Next time politely tell him you would prefer to make it another time when you can give him your undivided attention.

Let him know POLITELY AND CALMLY that your time is precious and that he needs to make every effort to be on time, or text you if he is held up. Let him know that you do appreciate all the things he HAS done right. If he is a professional man as well, he should understand that time is a precious commodity you won't get back.

T.C.G.....if this is a BIG pet peeve...I would bring it to him but in a not so dramatic way. He does seem like a great guy so you don't want to push him away...but you have to feel comfortable in the relationship too and knowing that he might be late every or every other date is going to have you on pins and needles and coming across as being very upset!

The only thing I would do is wait until he is late again and at that time allow him to come over (if you all are going out to a restaurantt,movie, or concert or wherever) and just have on sweats and say very nicely that you can't deal with being over an hour late as much as he has been and that you would need some type of consideration on his part to be on time....I would give him the option of texting if he will be late, b/c guess what...you will be getting a whole lot of text messages that he will be late and even though thats nice every blue moon, it won't be to you b/c you HATE a person that is late! So after a while of considerate text you will be right back where you started...CONCERNED, CONFUSED, FRUSTRATED AND PISSED!

Just ask him is this normal for him. He will probably ask you why you asked. Then the floor is yours, but don't be critical. You can just say I was wondering if it was something I's supposed to get used to. Don't get into a conversation. Drop it fast, he will know you noticed, then see if the behavior continues.

OK, so I stay cool, calm, collected (which I've done so far during this situation and through the course of our 2 month dating spree - never raised my voice and if I got cross, I took time off and then got back to him). And ONLY if he brings it up OR if it happens again, I calmly say something like "Is this normal for you to generally show up almost an hour late?"

I still haven't texted him back...he usually texts me while I am at work during the day but hasn't today. Should I text back? Or wait? ...I think I should wait...let the wondering bubble for him a little.

wow...an hour late...that is pushing it. I thought you were talking maybe 15 or 20 minutes.

Being in the artistic field many of my friends are on another planet..parking cars on Mars and really have no idea of how long things do take. I am one of the few artistes that I know that actually do have a sense of time.

Trust me, the more I badgered them about it the worse it got. Is your guy a professional like yourself?

Yea, he's got a professional day job too, but is a musician at heart. If it was 15-20 min, I would have been mildly pissed, but he's been late 2x like this (about an hr). And I can understand getting held up b/c of work commitments, but he should have at least let me know. I guess next time, I won't accept his offer to drop-in so late (BTW, the last time he did this, it caused the Grrr... thread that you may remember and he didn't end up coming over that night. I told him that I'd been already asleep the next day).

that is starting to be a horse of a different color..A professional should have a very good idea of how valuable time is. If you appeal to that side of him you might get somewhere.

you may still have to decide how important this one is though. If he could cut it down to 10-15 minutes and call if he is going to be later than that, would you be able to meet him half way?

Yep, I always give about a 5-10 minute window anyway - living in NYC - it's tough when you have to rely on the train. :) I think I should express that being so late will not be tolerated.

I have taken public transportation for years. Never had a car.

Although things do happen that are unforseen, I generally know how to navigate on the bus, how long it generally takes and how much time to leave myself.

Consistantly being over 30 minutes late without calling or having a very good excuse is not good.

I don't want to poop because he does sound like a good guy and a keeper but I can see why this upsets you.

If a client were an hour late, how much would you charge for a missed appointment?

I agree with you, Theta. That's why I think I need to discuss this with him in a calm manner as Robin suggested. I also know that he's consistently late for other things as well and that's why I think it's part of his personality. To be fair, he hasn't been late on scheduled dates, but he's late after coming from work. So I think if it's a late night after work and he wants to hang out, I should either 1) tell him that it's too late to hang out and save myself the hassle OR 2) he should text me to let me know if he'll be late.

T.C.G. -
All I can can is what it will read on my epitaph:
The train leaves on time in Austria!

It's part of his personality.
If you want him in your life then you will have to get used to that.
Whether it's work or play then he should at least give you the courtesy of a phone call.

No text; only text if he can't reach you otherwise.
Anything "gentlemanly" will do.

This is ALL about what you are willing to put up with.
Noo one is perfect but if being LATE is an issue for you then continue to date others -or- make other plans... evenif it's a BUBBLE BATH.

No hanging out when you are too tired or it's too late - not at this stage of the game.
Let the games begin! How hard is he willing to work to see you...
Weed 'em out... time's a wasting.

The World's going to Hell in a Handbasket, ya know.
Chivalry, is it really dead? No.
Make your deals up front, I learned.
Auds
xoxox

You're right Auds. I think I need to have a calm, cool, collected discussion with him in the way that Robin suggested. I haven't heard from him all day today! (And I usually do by now)....ugh, I wonder if he knows I am upset.

I think your behaviour on the late night call when he got tied up talking to others, and then you told him not to come over as you were now too tired, was quite appropriate. You set a good boundary there, and I would think he really got it that his lateness caused him to miss out on seeing you. Really good lesson for him there!

Given he's only been late twice in two months, I would be inclined to just adopt a wait and see approach. I don't believe this is enough of a problem (yet) to warrant having any discussion on it with your guy. No one's perfect, and the problem I see in discussing his lateness with him is you might make an even bigger issue out of it.

I can appreciate you feel angry. Lateness gets my hackles up as well. However, as I said I wouldn't consider it enough of a problem yet to mention unless he makes a muck up next time. In which case, you could discuss it in the manner that Robin suggests. BTW, if you're angry, then you might find venting to your girlfriends a good idea as sometimes we can let things like this get in the way.

Just continue demonstrating good boundaries by your actions. Men respond to action, not words.

Trace, you forgot to cap DO... lol
i.e. Men actually DO respond to actions rather than words...

Auds
xoxox

BTW, I got a call from Wine Man... and he is willing to accept any term I set for him... He said and I quote:
As long as you can accept me as a friend.

I searched this albatross high and lo' for his lighter. i tolde him that I know what it means to lose that special something that is of value to HIIM and no one else. I told him that I do NOT want a relationship with him BUT I know that when something is valued then ... I am his best friend.

I think, that someone was in my home AND I don't appreciate that ANYONE steals from me or from anyone that comes to my home.

You see, "someone" (with all the workers here...) TOOK my camera.
NOT gonna happen again...

This is an example of:
SETTING YOUR BOUNDARIES

I can tell you from personal experience.. SOMETIMES it's NOT the TONE ... sometimes, it's TRUST that while I'm yelling and screaming ... on the outside.../ I'm REALLY gentle and loving on the INSIDE. But.. you'd have to be "Einstein"...hehehe.. to figure THAT out.

Auds
xoxox

Thanks for the encourgement, Trace. It's good to know I am on the right track (I am new to DWD). However, how come he hasn't texted or called at all today? (It's now 8:30 PM) My anger is gone (although I still don't appreciate his tardiness) and I do miss him. Does he think I am upset or is he upset himself?

Yes, I think he probably picked up that you were less than impressed. And he's probably giving you a bit of time to cool down. But that's been and gone. Today is a new day. Next time you have contact, (and it goes without saying that you let him make that contact) just be your natural warm and happy self...just remember you're the one that has the goodies, so he'll want to be able to partake of that! Just let him in...

Process any residue of anger/frustration you still might have with us (that's what we're here for!)

I guess I do have some residue frustration. :( And to top it off, he still hasn't contacted me all day today. Trying to hold strong and NOT contact him...but it's sooo hard. :( Ughghhhh.. OK, given the last text he sent last night (that he was sorry about being late and really wanted to see me) and the fact that I haven't responded at all...I should still NOT contact him and let him contact me?

Yep, you handled it like a pro last night when you made it clear that he'd dipped out. (And lets not forget, it's only been one night!) Next time you have contact, you'll be your normal warm and loving self. "Calm as the sea" as opposed to "All worked up into a sweat and still feeling frazzled".

Talk to us, not your man about your anger/frustration...we have broad shoulders!

I know...but he usually contacts me everyday (several text messages and/or phone call). I am having an incredibly difficult/stressful week at work and I just really miss him and want to see him. :( I hope he contacts me today. On Tuesday, he had invited me to go see him perform with his band Saturday night at a local bar - I had told him "Not sure if I can make it, but I'll defintely try - I really want to see you up there". If there is no contact on his part before Saturday night, should I go to the performance anyway?

I am sure you will hear from him by the end of today.

I am sure this is not wilfull passive aggressiveness on his part. As you say chronic lateness is part of being him. As long as he turns up when he is supposed to for an actual date. I pity the fool that leaves you waiting outside a concert hall with $200 tickets to your favorite band.

Best to nip it in the bud before it gets to that point. He probably does not view "hanging out" as a real date requiring a time commitment. I have lots of friends like that. I love actors but they are notoriously flakey

As for Saturday, I would go but that is just me.

OK, I caved...I texted him just asking what he's up to. I hate this. :( It won't be so bad if I wasn't already so stressed (due to work - his texts were a good distraction for me while I was at work). He responded immediately that he feels that I've been ignoring him...he thought I was upset b/c he called me late.

Tough, I've been thinking about this since this morning when I read your first post here. I'm thinking that while you may not exactly be able to salvage THIS particular event, one way to prevent similar problems in the future is to approach it differently right from the start.

Perhaps if when he'd called so late (11:30 pm!!) asking to come over you'd said something like, "Well, I'll give you about 20 minutes then I have to go to bed. It's late and I have to work in the morning. If I don't see you, call me tomorrow and we'll plan something else." That way he knows you want to see him, but you're tired AND he has a time frame to work within. See what I mean?

I'm a chronically punctual person myself, I can't help it, it's in my genes - my dad was the same way, so I really understand your dilemma. But his being late 2 times in 2 months isn't so bad and, like I said, this situation could have been averted by your being specific and setting your boundaries for that evening right up front.

I know...a little too much shutting the barn door after the horse is loose...but, perhaps a little bit of something for the future.

I responded to his text saying that I was a bit irked but wasn't ignoring him. He said I could have said "hello" yesterday. I responded with "I guess I could have." Am I losing here? :(

You may have to meet him half way a bit. I think you may have hurt his feelings.

This is not a bad thing--it means he cares. I do not want you to lose this guy over this and K's advice is spot on.

Throw the poor guy a bone. He really has been doing everything else right hasn't he?

AT this point I'd try to let it go and hope that he does as well. I'm a huge fan of the Bible verse: Love covers a multitude of sins. In otherwords, sometimes, you just let it go. With any luck he will too and you'll both be back to normal in no time. I would hate to see this issue become a sticking point in an otherwise yummy relationship. If he brings it up again, just tell him it's forgotten, maybe say something like, "That thing? Heck, I'd already forgotten about it."

Oh, and give him some time to digest all of this without any rancor or pressure from you. In other words, just let him contact you next and be your usual light and lovely self!

He said that I'd been acting strange and wanted to know what was up. I said "I was a bit irked, but am not ignoring you. If you had felt that way, I wish you would have called to talk about it, but I can assure you that everything is OK."

Tough, I think this will blow over. What I'd do, though is make a plan for how you'll handle all this in the future. Robin has had some great ideas and I'm sure you have a few of your own. The whole idea, really is to prevent this from becoming an issue and the best way, I think, to do that is to make your boundaries clear but in such a way that it's not demanding. I'm sure you can do it!

"He said that I'd been acting strange and wanted to know what was up. I said "I was a bit irked, but am not ignoring you. If you had felt that way, I wish you would have called to talk about it, but I can assure you that everything is OK."

If he didn't call and talk to you about it could it be that he was afraid of how you would react? I'm getting that pissing you off is not a pleasant experience. Not that this is a bad thing when setting boundaries but could it be you are not so approachable when he has something to say that you might not want to hear?

Hmm...I don't think so Theta. I've never raised my voice at him and never gotten crazy angry with him. He's very sensitive.

lucky girl. could be a case of opposites attract--you being the tough one and him being a more sensitive one.

There is an article I get in my email box every now and then that everyone is in our lives for a reason, a season or a lifetime. Every relationship has something to teach us. Even if it is only for a season.

hopefully yours will be for longer than that

I am really not so tough. :( And I am stressing for several reasons...this is not a good day. He still hasn't responded to my last text...I really just want to take off and cry. :(

well, give him time. It is early still. He seems too into you not to be in touch.

When he does, if he has something to say, let him say it. If not, fine don't push him. Just let him know that he can say what he has to say and you won't get mad at him.

Then as K says, just let let it go and take mental notes how you will handle it if it comes up in the future.

I think some open communication without drama will be the solution here.

I haven't read the posts btw T.C.G. and thetababe BUT ( and I am so tired)... I know this is a GOOD THING:)

This forum IS a godsend. Nice to finds new friends!!!
Love you BOTH,
auds
xoxox

OMG so much has happened. We talked finally (quickly over phone as we're both at work) and agreed to have more open communication. He said his brother was coming into town and he wanted me to meet him. And then he wanted to confirm that we were in fact dating (I said "yes").

Then he made some kind of joke about porn and I followed up on it and sure enough he flipped out saying that he couldn't be with a girl who is so obsessed with porn...WTF?! I told him calmly that I didn't mean to upset him and we should both talk when we're both calm after work....Omg girls, this guy...

I am already stressed...and this is making my nerves completely shot.

thanks Auds - luv ya too

hoo boy TCG you really got a puzzle wrapped in an enigma.

Well, I am glad he called anyway. Hopefully you can work out the porn issue.

We broke up. I am down, but alright. I think it was the right decision.

I am sorry to hear that, ToughCookieGirl. What happened? I realise there were some issues, but still? Are you sure you are OK?

I had a few reservations about him from the beginning and I wanted to take things slow. While he is a very considerate, sensitive guy, he can get very emotional at times and erupt to the point of being very hurtful (i.e. on Friday, he was texting me while I was at work arguing about a joke that I'd made that he took the wrong way, twisting my words and repeatedly accusing me argumentatively, when he knew I was very busy/stresssed at work - the more appropriate response would have been to discuss is later maturely and calmly which he did not do and has not done). He's pulled these emotional drama stunts a few times in the past and I've expressed to him that while he's entitled to his feelings, he has to express them in a constructive and calm manner (sitting down and having a clam talk, and not texting me while I am a work about it). In the end, because of the way that he handled a very minor conflict made me realize we weren't right for each other.

Because of the way things happened on Friday, after that we went out to dinner, and I just kept replaying everything that had happened. The events had put a bad taste in my mouth and all my reservations about him surfaced. I realized that not only could I not trust him to not pull an emotional stunt again, but that an intellectual connection was missing as well. I felt that I couldn't be and didn't want to be in a long-term relationship with him.

I believe a lot of his reactions stem from his insecurities: being able to unfulfill me sexually, or perhaps his belief that I date more "Wall St" type guys rather than him - both of which were blown out of proportion by him as I was fulfilled sexually and if I stayed with him for 2 months without dating anyone else, I must have liked him enough even if he wasn't my type (I don't even think I have a "type" - this was his perception). Where I was unfulfilled was his lack of understanding about me - he tried so hard to please me that he never just stepped back to understand/accept me.

I am sorry to see it end - I think I was hoping in time the reservations would go away and I'd see him to be the kind of man I wanted to be. However, that did not happen, and so it was a good decision to end it. I am certainly hurt - I've lost my appetite and have cried a bit - but more so about my life in general rather than him. I hope that I don't have to wait another 4 years for my next relationship to emerge - I am hoping and praying to find someone who is right.

Of course you will!!!

And well done for not settling in a relationship that isn't right for you. You are a brave and gutsy woman.

I wish you strength, wisdom and lots of love and happiness, TCG!

tough...I think he means well, but you need to let him know how annoying this is for you in a calm and nice manner (when you're not angry). He won't bother to change if he doesn't realize how this is affecting your mood. So, speak up. :)

oops! just read your last post...Wow! That went from Hot to Cold in a flash...important to not overlook little flags early on, I guess. Good Luck. If I remember from a former thread of yours, you seem to be a type A personality and you might also want to work on that part of you in the mean time...too stressful, I was that way myself and am trying hard not to be. :) good luck to you.

Thanks, Oh Little. I think I get stressed because of work a lot - it's a really bad situation and I really need to find another job/place/life. I work in a really male-dominated environment with some really immature men (see this post about 2 months ago -http://www.datingwithoutdrama.com/content/tired-it-all#comment-41487). I know I may act tough on the oustide, and put up a front/guard, but, I definitely do not feel strong inside. And if anything, I am the toughest on myself. It's what made me so "successful" (which I also don't feel I am) and at the same time, so miserable.

Tough, I don't doubt that you are successful at your job...the true definition of success is "happiness". So maybe it is time for you to make some positive changes in your life...that is something we've all had to think about one time or another. :)

Sometimes we have to hit a low point, being so miserable in that state of mind that it becomes the motivator needed to move us in the right direction.

Tough,

I commend you on your wise,yet "tough" decision to end it. Way to recognize unacceptable behavior early on and save yourself even greater heartache! Very goddess, very healthy move! As soon as we start making excuses for behaviors we find unsavory, we set ourselves up f/ a frustrating and unsatisfying relationship.

As long as you know what kind of things you're willing to accept and not accept from a man and not allow those boundaries to be broken, you'll do great!

We can't change "them" and unless we're willing to accept "them" as is, it's best to move on.

Thanks, ladies. Breaking up is always tough - I did really like him (see my post re: gushing), but I do think this is the right move.

These instances show his insecurity and how he manipulates the situation and made me feel awful:

On Friday night, when we were finally discussing the problem at my place, he was completely putting me down by telling me that I am weird and abnormal (because I like porn and have toys) and that I won't be able to enjoy a "real man." I was crying and he continued to talk to me like that. He kept asking me to answer his questions and I was so overwhelmed/confused/crying that I couldn't even process the situation/his words. I tried to say "I understand that you are upset but..." and he took that statement to mean that I am admitting to everything he said (that I am weird/abnormal and need help). He finally calmed down when I reassured him that I did like him (I showed him my "gushing" post). But I knew I couldn't keep reassuring him like that over and over again and didn't want to, and that this situation couldn't go on - him texting and arguing with me while I am at work.

He was so adamant that I'd eventually leave him b/c he won't be able to satisfy me sexually. I responded with "I do feel unfulfilled and unaccepted" - meaning that I felt unfulfilled in the way we were communicating to resolve problems - but instead he took that statement to mean that I am admitting that I am unfulilled sexually and then said "I think I made the right decision to break up with you."

...there are a few more instances like this but they were minor and these were the worst that came up on Friday. I don't think I can be with a person like that; can you?

On top of that, he's pulled these dramatic "I don't think I am the right guy for you" stunts before only to come back 2-3 hours later. These boomerang boys/relationships are NOT healthy and that factored into my decision to end the relationship.

He obviously didn't feel he was worthy of me, and he proved it over and over again. Perhaps, I should look for someone who believes he is worthy of me. Perhaps, I should look for someone who holds me when I cry even though he's hurt himself rather than continue to yell at me (I know this is something guys will probably never do)...

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